docking w/ inexperienced crew?

[Pete17C]

Originally Posted by Exonerated

. Maybe temporarily we could put a line around a side-stay's chain plate.

if you're gonna try the aft line, helm in, motor in gear method ...

Yes, lash the two boats together as far forward as you can safely from your boat then relax and tidy up

[Alita49DS]

I think that the starting point with inexperienced crew is that they want to help and that it is your responsibility to brief them on how they can. Well in advance.

Essentially that will mean that they handle the lines as there is no way that they should be made responsible for crunching your boat or someone else's by being at the helm. It is your task to put them in reach.

You have to tell people how to handle a line and which one. I agree with all those who have said that in parallel mooring the centre line is the best bet. Once on, neither the bow or the stern can pivot far. The once on is, however, key. Inexperienced people are understandably afraid of making a mistake. They need to be told to just get the line onto a cleat and not worry about how neatly. Once on it can be tidied up. Otherwise they will think that they can hold the thing and then be faced with the choice of letting go or falling into the water.

I think that you also have to tell people to acknowledge orders and not be afraid to raise their voice. Having someone at the bow calling distance in a whisper whilst facing away from the helm on a 15m boat is not helpful!

Given enough bodies, let the most inadept/least athletic have a roving fender. They will then also feel useful. And, indeed, might be critical if you make a hash of it. Which we have all done.

Finally, all this stuff about not jumping off is fine if there is a nice friendly bollard. Otherwise, it is up to you to get them nice and close so they can step off safely from the shrouds or an open gate.

Anyway, all this largely goes out of the window with Med mooring. Unless you have a marinero to help, someone is going to have to get off the stern to get the lazy lines before the head drifts off.

Actually, in my marina in Genoa unless you have your own stern lines you can reach with a boat hook, you are going to have to get someone onto the pontoon to get those on. Unless you are the genius who can drop a line through a ring set well below the top of the pontoon!

[JPA Cate]

Hi, again, Exonerated,

For the rafting up, when you have no amidships cleat: before you go into the marina, have your fenders in place to protect the beamiest part of the vessel, and have your bow and stern lines rigged. You'll want two of each, one will do as aft and fore "breast lines", the other two as fore and aft springs.

Motor alongside, stop the boat where the rigs cannot get fouled on each other, do the two stern lines first, with the spring to your bow cleat, then go across with the two bow lines. Attach the breast first, then the other spring. The two springs are to keep the rigs apart by inhibiting fore or aft movement. The two "breasts" are to keep the two boats the desired distance apart, protected by the fenders.

Modify the plan as you find exactly what works best for you with those boats. Things like avoiding line chafe on hulls may make you need to use more fenders, to space the lines off. You may want to introduce chafing gear on the dock lines, if they are yours.

Ann

[Pete17C]

I think Ann just tidy'd it all up

take a couple of the guys/gals from your sailing club, talk about and practice our suggestions you think might work, find out what works and makes sense for you and your boat/tie up arrangement

if this is your 'regular docking' you need to be able to get in and out easy, and other members as well, without dinging up 'everyones' boats

[Exonerated]

Thanks!

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by Exonerated

To clarify for people skeptical of docking boats next to each other: The boat isn't mine - these belong to a club that I'm a member of. The club has limited dock space, so we put boats next to each other. (Yes, it does require moving them around sometimes.) I have some pretty good training from the club, but the courses consist of an instructor and several students with decent experience. I'm still working out how to do things short-handed.

Have the club managers/instructors given some guidance on how to raft single-handed? (You could then use that to decide how to work with crew.)

Originally Posted by Exonerated

Hmm, I think I see the issue: Many of these boats don't actually have cleats at the midships-- just at the bow and stern. It's not actually a problem, we usually rig spring lines running from a winch to a bow or stern cleat. But it does make this procedure you're talking about trickier. Maybe temporarily we could put a line around a side-stay's chain plate.

I think I'd be happy enough with a temporary line around the other boat's shroud, if there's no mid-ship cleat. Once stabilized, you could get all the other lines on and then remove the first.

IOW, nothing says the line(s) you use to land must necessarily be the lines you use to secure the boat for the duration.

-Chris

[Exonerated]

Have the club managers/instructors given some guidance on how to raft single-handed? (You could then use that to decide how to work with crew.)

The guidance is that if you aren't confident without help, then call in on the radio in that you're arriving, so someone on staff can help.

Recently after following this procedure and docking smoothly, the staff member helping said: "You didn't need my help!". (I *think* he wasn't annoyed at being asked to help or anything. Probably just a friendly compliment.)

That's what got me thinking about what the procedure would be without help, and making this post.

[PirateBarnabus]

This is the best advice. Using a centre spring is key to a successful docking.
The boat needs to be in gear to provide drive against the spring which gently pulls the boat onto the dock and keeps it there whilst crew (not you)
Secure the lines. But many single handers do this themselves without problems.
So often I see large crews shouting and throwing lines around in a blind panic and all they needed was...... A central spring.

[stnick]

I am sailing instructor so all docking procedures are gone over before we leave the slip ! Its 10 min talk . show and tell . NO on ever leaves the ship and hops onto a dock EVER ! No one puts a hand or foot off the boat in-between the pole and boat to protect the boat !
Every person on the dock is Given orders even just a passing stranger to grab a line. You dont ask You insist ! Taking full control of the whole fluid situation. You stay at the helm and the CREW listens and carries thru . Its done firmly , not nasty at all .
If there are errors we talk about how it could have been better right than . ! Sometimes i was not clear some times they did not hear. But its all done in the sprit of fun .

[Sojourner]

I don't know about completely inexperienced crew doing anything but sitting still and out of the way.... There is literally no job docking a boat that can't be screwed up by a novice.

1) Helm control? Out of the question
2) Stepping off a boat to secure a line? Even if I pre-bowline the end, still a lot to go wrong...if you slip because you're not used to the big step off or it's slippery, getting mashed between my boat and the dock is not gonna be a good time.
3) Cleating a line someone threw from the dock? Cleating correctly is not always intuitive.
4) Throwing stern lines? Even throwing a line is a bit of an art that can easily be messed up, line in the water, pulling it back in, tossing it over the lifeline instead of passing it under first....
4) Roving fender? Easy to get mashed, or push on the wrong part of the neighboring boat (ie lifelines/stanchions)
5) Working a slime line up to the bow? I've seen someone start pulling the wrong end toward the front. Nuff said.

If hard pressed, #4. But more often, just sit there and sip your coffee and watch the show rather than make my work double hard by messing it up the first time

[Bampa]

By "center spring line", is this a 'breast line', running from a winch or cleat amidships to a cleat or pile at that same point on the dock or neighboring boat? If so, this is my situation if single-handing or with no experience in the crew (seldom the situation); my helm is at approximately the fore-aft center of the boat, so I can be at the helm and throw a line from there or even reach to the cleat or pile.

[CaptainDana]

After Bow Spring is the proper name of the line I use when docking side-to dock or quay. If the line handler can be counted on to hand a loop into the hands of the dock master or loop a cleat or piling; the guy at the helm should direct the line handler as to how much scope is needed before making the line fast to a waist cleat. It is then up to the helmsman to bring the vessel under control alongside and to maintain said control until sufficient lines are put in place.

When the after bow spring is made fast at both ends, the helmsman should drive the boat forward until the line is taught. Then the helmsman should put the helm over as if to turn away from the dock. This brings the stern in to the dock. The speed at which the stern swings is controlled with the rudder and can be arrested or even reversed if necessary.

[stnick]

There is only one CAPTAIN , His job is to teach before the boat leaves the slip . They really do want to learn . On a sailing craft there are no passengers just working crew. Teach cleating a line and let them try praise them. They are new to this skill. Its a fun thing to sail and learn which way the wind is blowing . New people dont know. Show them how you know ! see the flag , feel the wind on your face! close your eyes feel the wind on your face. The wind changes directions all the time.Every time ! A teaching moment makes the whole experience a sense of pride for newbies

[Macblaze]

This thread taught me one thing...traveling to foreign places (which apparently can be just down the coast a bit) must be even more nerve wracking because of the weird docking procedures. Someone above said they order random strangers on the dock to help...here is the PNW we order people on the dock to leave our damn lines alone :-)

And what's with the poles? That seems more bizarre than the concept of slime lines. I wonder how many world cruisers set off without doing a little docking research...it must make for more docking hilarity than usual

[TheOffice]

I haven't read the entire thread, so forgive me.

Docking with an inexperienced crew starts with leaving the dock with an inexperienced crew. Assign positions. Show them how lines runs through chocks. Explain the sequence of releasing and grabbing lines. Put your most reliable person on the critical line. Be sure boat hooks and fenders are set before you approach. Be clear in your instructions.