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Old 16-10-2012, 11:56   #31
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Re: Docking In Heavy Wind

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Originally Posted by cagney View Post
The method described would work but with small margins. What about plan B?
Think about this suggestion:
If I had crew available I would consider putting a crew member on the dock, at some convenient nearby point.
Then proceed by pivoting the boat on the windward pole. Throw a line ashore to the crew member om the dock. Then slowly go stern to, by way of using the cockpit winches, slowly and under control. Plenty with lines to get the best geometry, depending on the circumstances. The crew member on the dock would come in handy here. One crew on the fore-deck slowly releasing a line to the windward pole, even, if possible, a line to the next pole to windward.

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Forget the dock -- he's talking about pile moorings -- just two piles. You have to tie up fore and aft between them. Maybe you don't have them where you sail, but they are common in the Baltic and Atlantic Europe. My permanent mooring is a pile mooring Although it is slightly modified with a pontoon between the piles . . .
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Old 16-10-2012, 12:13   #32
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Re: Docking In Heavy Wind

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Forget the dock -- he's talking about pile moorings -- just two piles. You have to tie up fore and aft between them. Maybe you don't have them where you sail, but they are common in the Baltic and Atlantic Europe. My permanent mooring is a pile mooring Although it is slightly modified with a pontoon between the piles . . .
Read the OP again .. 5m between the poles, I thought we were talking about slightly larger boats , and I have never seen that kind of mooring in Denmark. Still there may be some...
I know the setup... had to tie up between two poles in Cowes on my Yachtmaster Offshore exam, years ago.

Thomas
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Old 16-10-2012, 13:06   #33
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Re: Docking In Heavy Wind

re last 2 erronous posts

quote self

im assuming a pole on either side of the berth about 10-12 meters from the dock,so in a crosswind you would have a windward and leeward pole on either side of your stern once berthed.

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Atoll,

You are correct
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Old 16-10-2012, 15:08   #34
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Re: Docking In Heavy Wind

From perspective of the "crew to loop a line on the windward pole": there is a technique to get the line loop over the pole in high winds. Maybe include that in the course? It's not as straightforward in 30+ knot winds as the helmsman might think So it might be a nice idea to practice the setup beforehand.
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Old 17-10-2012, 02:27   #35
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Re: Docking In Heavy Wind

Those of you that have sailed denmark, know that two poles, 5 meters apart, 10 meter from the dock are the most common form of docking in the country. When entering a harbour, odd are very strong that this is what you will be greeted with.

The problem is, as i noted earlier, that most coastal sailors never willingly go out in gale force winds (beaufort 8 or more). But they do get caught out in them. Dropping the hook and waiting for better weather is an excellent idea, but again, most coasties cringe at the thought of sitting on a hook in beaufort 8 . To be honest, most coasties don't have the ground trackle for that type of anchoring. When I take a walk along the pir and look at the anchors hanging over the bow of the boats, most are CPQ copies, and almost none of them have ever been in the water.

That type of sailor niether can nor will drop a hook, open the wine and wait for the wind to drop. So we need to teach them the basics of heavy weather sailing and docking. Then they have to practice.

If they don't practice, then it is theirnown fault
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Old 17-10-2012, 03:36   #36
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Re: Docking In Heavy Wind

Quote:
Originally Posted by cagney View Post
Read the OP again .. 5m between the poles, I thought we were talking about slightly larger boats , and I have never seen that kind of mooring in Denmark. Still there may be some...
I know the setup... had to tie up between two poles in Cowes on my Yachtmaster Offshore exam, years ago.

Thomas
You are right. Different arrangement than pile moorings in the UK.
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Old 17-10-2012, 03:37   #37
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Re: Docking In Heavy Wind

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Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
Those of you that have sailed denmark, know that two poles, 5 meters apart, 10 meter from the dock are the most common form of docking in the country. When entering a harbour, odd are very strong that this is what you will be greeted with.
What do you do if your beam is 5 meters or more, as mine is?
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Old 17-10-2012, 05:47   #38
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Re: Docking In Heavy Wind

Dockhead

You sail around in the harbor looking for some poles six meters apart. My boat is four meters on the beam, lots of smaller harbors, the distance between the poles may only be 3.5 meters. You just have to look.

Granted, wehn winds are gale force, this sailing around down the lanes is entertaining, as well as challenging. With your 54 ft moody, you would have to stick with the larger harbours and frequently end up, as we do, in the industrial harbours. There you ly along the pier.

My neighbor has a 54 ft jeannau, she stay mostly in industrial harbors
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Old 17-10-2012, 05:51   #39
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Re: Docking In Heavy Wind

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Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
Dockhead

You sail around in the harbor looking for some poles six meters apart. My boat is four meters on the beam, lots of smaller harbors, the distance between the poles may only be 3.5 meters. You just have to look.

Granted, wehn winds are gale force, this sailing around down the lanes is entertaining, as well as challenging. With your 54 ft moody, you would have to stick with the larger harbours and frequently end up, as we do, in the industrial harbours. There you ly along the pier.

My neighbor has a 54 ft jeannau, she stay mostly in industrial harbors
I'll keep that in mind. I do hope to cruise Denmark some day. I am used to berthing in industrial and fishing harbors and have appropriate long lines and fender boards. I kind of like it, actually.
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Old 17-10-2012, 06:01   #40
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Re: Docking In Heavy Wind

Should you decide to cruise here (and there are about 100 inhabited islands to cruise in/between/around, drop me line and i'll send you a lots of cruising material. Weather pretty much like UK. No tides or strong currents here. Max tide in denmark is around 30 cm.
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Old 17-10-2012, 16:35   #41
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Re: Docking In Heavy Wind

I confess to not having read through all the posts, but regarding the "Atoll/starzinger approach" - I would personally experiment with bringing the spring attachment point aft some distance, so it's a compromise between a spring and a breast line (I'm short of time, so don't be too hard on me if I've misunderstood the proposal)

This would improve the angle, particularly in the earlier stages.

I'm thinking also of the recovery prospects if you found the propellor thrust to be borderline, and consequently had to reduce the leeward helm and angle the bow up further to windward: a breast line would do better than a spring from the bow in this scenario.
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Old 17-10-2012, 18:07   #42
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Re: Docking In Heavy Wind

A mid ship cleat to outermost windward pole would be best, but, most boats dont have this option so you have to settle for a bow spring making the length of the line very important
I have used this method , but must admit my knees were shaking and near buy boats were putting out fenders
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Old 17-10-2012, 18:09   #43
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Re: Docking In Heavy Wind

O.k. some one make a video showing the solution using the spring ;sounds like a neat and proper trick, but with + 30 its of wind abeam the bow of most any boat will blow off instantly downwind,then what do you do? Maybe an acrobatic crew on the bow could get another line to the forward piling but I'll bet on more misses than hits. Now the O.P. is mentioning doing all this in force 8 winds. Get Real !
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Old 17-10-2012, 18:14   #44
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Re: Docking In Heavy Wind

I would probably pay my captain to use the thrusters, and inch up to the pilings.
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Old 17-10-2012, 19:29   #45
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Re: Docking In Heavy Wind

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Originally Posted by mrohr View Post
O.k. some one make a video showing the solution using the spring ;sounds like a neat and proper trick, but with + 30 its of wind abeam the bow of most any boat will blow off instantly downwind,then what do you do? Maybe an acrobatic crew on the bow could get another line to the forward piling but I'll bet on more misses than hits. Now the O.P. is mentioning doing all this in force 8 winds. Get Real !
I've been staying out of this cuz I have never done it but I did make up this little sketch yesterday.

Sory about the scan quality but I think this is what Atoll and carstenb are talking about - with my interpretation on how to do it. I have considered worst case (30kts and 2-up)

Position 1 - Upwind mid-cleat and stern-cleat lines have bolard loops on them and are belayed to blocks and or winches. Forward cleat line is coiled and ready to deploy. Deckhand stands just forward of midship, helm steers to pole. Deckhand drops loops on pole and helm and deckhand start belaying line.

Position 2 - The bow is coming down. It helps if deckhand can belay from the foredeck rail as if he loses it the downwind boat gets smacked. Helm has power on and the boat should be springing to windward.

Position 3 - At some point the deckhand has to cleat the spring, go ashore and cleat the forward line.

If it were me I would likely dinghy a line to the dock. This is a very tough landing, not for the faint of heart and you probably have to come in with some speed and power.

The helm has steering, engine and belaying duties. The deckhand has line, mid cleat, "fendering" and bow line duties - A third person makes this a lot easier. Even if it is a shore base line handler - the deckhand can toss the bowline early.

I would be heavily fendered (boarded) on upwind stern and fendered on downwind bow.

I would also consider having the boat hook on the foredeck and if things got stupid I would have no compunction trying to grab upwind neighbors spring line to hold my bow up.
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