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Old 12-10-2012, 07:05   #16
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Re: Docking In Heavy Wind

Still not following you. If you tie the bow off to windward (lets say starboard side). Now you ???
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:12   #17
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Re: Docking In Heavy Wind

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Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
Still not following you. If you tie the bow off to windward (lets say starboard side). Now you ???
I think Atoll means to: (1) drive in between the poles, (2) snatch a line off the windward pole and put it down on the windward spring cleat, (3) put the helm hard over to leeward, (4) drive up against the spring line, (5) this 'should' pull the whole boat up parallel to the windward side of the pen/slip - play with throttle and helm as necessary, (6) get other lines on.

If done exactly properly, that will work and look really slick, but there is a decent chance of a screw up.

The idea of parking the boat along both poles, with bow pointed into the wind, in order to get bow and stern and stern lines to windward, and then letting the boat slide back a little to swing the bow in and controlling it with lines from there (and possibly using the spring/motor as above) is a good solution . . . . but only if (1) the boats either side don't stick out at all past the poles, and (2) if the pole is fendered or you have great rub rails because you are going to bear on the leeward pole quite heavily. I have done this approach once to get into a travel lift slip in a strong cross wind - worked ok but my topsides don't scratch.
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:15   #18
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Re: Docking In Heavy Wind

Ok! Got it now. Whew! yes it will look slick as hell if done right. But my god! Major chances for a screw-up. What a harbor show!

Thanks guys. Course can now be completed

thumbs up for all of you!

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Old 12-10-2012, 07:15   #19
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Re: Docking In Heavy Wind

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Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
Still not following you. If you tie the bow off to windward (lets say starboard side). Now you ???
your spring line has to be long enough so when it is tight the bow is about 1meter from the dock,the person on the helm uses engine thrust to push the boat up to wind ward,whilst the person on the bow gets a line ashore,then the spring can be transferred to the stern.

if you have never springed onto or off a dock this is very hard to explain ,but is a technique big ships use all the time,if no tug or bowthruster available.
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:19   #20
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Re: Docking In Heavy Wind

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Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
I think Atoll means to: (1) drive in between the poles, (2) snatch a line off the windward pole and put it down on the windward spring cleat, (3) put the helm hard over to leeward, (4) drive up against the spring line, (5) this 'should' pull the whole boat up parallel to the windward side of the pen/slip - play with throttle and helm as necessary, (6) get other lines on.

If done exactly properly, that will work and look really slick, but there is a decent chance of a screw up.

The idea of parking the boat along both poles, with bow pointed into the wind, in order to get bow and stern and string lines to windward, and then letting the boat slide back a little to swing the bow in and controlling it with lines from there (and possibly using the spring/motor as above) is a good solution . . . . but only if (1) the boats either side don't stick out at all past the poles, and (2) if the pole is fendered or you have great rub rails because you are going to bear on the leeward pole quite heavily.
thanks!+1gotta go now back to work glassing up on the little boat,back later
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:19   #21
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How many crew do you have, and other than the two pilings at the front of the slip, what are the other dock features (more pilings, a short finger dock, or just dock at stern)?

I will assume your dock is on south side, the wind is from west, and the channel is on east of slip.

I would bring the boat so midships is at windward piling, pointed into the wind. You should be able to hold it there pretty easily while crew loop a spring line and a bow line on piling. Crew also loop atleast a bowline on leeward piling, but not necessary.

You now motor forward till stern passes leeward piling. Let the now swing out now, while backing slowly, but hard to port. The bow can be controlled by both lines, till it spring line gets half way, and the bow can be controlled by now line alone. The stern is the problem. You need crew on the starboard stern and starboard midships with boat hooks keeping you off other boat/piling/dock.

If confident enough, you can do this with just two people... if you're quick. Once spring line has tension, and your backing to port, that should hold the stern against the wind of the bow is secure. But that'd be a sketchy maneuver.
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:21   #22
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Re: Docking In Heavy Wind

OK , yes ,I experienced the two pole and dock thing , its also used alot in some spainish apartment Marinas.

THis is the same as any downwind approach to a finger.

IN very heavy conditions, I merely fender the looward side, and then plan on resting on my neighbor. Then I sort it out with ropes,and or a dinghy, especially if light on crew.

Anything else is too hit and miss, expecting crew to loop or tie up as you pass is a receipe for disaster and trapped fingers. The chances of passing close enough to the windward pole to do anything useful is very tricky

Id have to say going in on the anchor is the only way to stop accidents.

The pulling up bow into the wind alongside teh poles is OK, but in lots of cases the neighour boat is sticking beyond the pole.
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:22   #23
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Re: Docking In Heavy Wind

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Originally Posted by arisatx View Post
Carsten:

If this were your home-slip, could you rig "bannister" lines from the pilings to the dock. Another set of thimbled eye lines that can slide along their lengths, that the bow man can hold onto to prevent the bow from falling too far off wind into your neighbor's well?

This was in a Good Ol Boat article a while back. (July 2010)

I have a line along my slip that runs from northeast to southwest. My bow comes in due east. This line won't keep me from hitting the wall but I don't need that help. I need a to keep a strong north wind from blowing away from my dock and over to the next slip, and this line does it well.

I know someone else who has two lines like that making a v, making sure he does not hit the seawall. He's an excellent sailor and I'm sure he doesn't need it.
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Old 16-10-2012, 09:45   #24
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Re: Docking In Heavy Wind

Thanks for the help guys. I have sailed in and off docks using springs lots of times but had not been able to figure out myself how to do it properly in a case such as this. Atoll/starzinger approach will work, and if practiced a number of times without wind should be easily doable ( well maybe not easily) in a high wind.

A major issue for most coastal sailors is that they never sail in heavy conitions, unless they get caught out it by accident. Then they haven't got a cluemwhat to to. This is why i'm putting together a series of courses on all aspects of heavy weather. Sooner or later everyone will get caught out.
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Old 16-10-2012, 10:27   #25
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Re: Docking In Heavy Wind

Believe it or not, I have actually done this -- in Yarmouth in a 30+ wind, on a pile mooring running roughly N and S in a SW gale. It was bloody hairy.

What I did was not very pretty, but I didn't scratch anything. I could not motor upwind towards the upwindish pile, because there was a ginormous Scumseeker there -- I had to approach downwind -- yikes!

I backed up towards the N pile already using forward gear to counteract the wind. Got a line around the pile and onto a stern cleat, somehow without smashing stern-first into the pile. Then motored hard against that line with starboard rudder to counteract bows blowing off (which thank God is not a strong effect on my boat), and let the bows drift over towards the S pile until we could get a line on there. But we couldn't get the line taut enough, and so we are blown over onto the Scumseeker (a gentle touch and well fendered so no damage). The bowthruster was not strong enough (12 horsepower!) to pull the bow around. So we dropped the dinghy and used it as a tugboat to pull the bows up between the piles and get the line taut enough to keep us off our neighbor. Whew. Cocktail hour.

The really hairy part of it was the fact that we couldn't get to the windward pile. If that had been possible, I would have tied the bow up there and then motored in astern against the line, using the rudder to steer the stern into position against the leeward pile.

Like I said, it was not very pretty, and not directly relevant to Carsten's question, but there you have it.
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Old 16-10-2012, 10:41   #26
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Re: Docking In Heavy Wind

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So we dropped the dinghy and used it as a tugboat to pull the bows up between the piles and get the line taut enough to keep us off our neighbor.
If you have the crew, and the space, using the dinghy can be a life saver.

The superyachts usually drop a tender before doing something tricky, just in case.
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Old 16-10-2012, 10:44   #27
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Re: Docking In Heavy Wind

A lot of times I throw the hook over and relax until the wind dies down some before trying to dock.
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Old 16-10-2012, 10:50   #28
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Re: Docking In Heavy Wind

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A lot of times I throw the hook over and relax until the wind dies down some before trying to dock.
Absolutely right. It is really important to remember that not every sailor on every boat in all conditions can always get into any berth. "Get-home-itis" causes not only airplane crashes, but docking smashups. Very often the right thing to do is just not attempt it, and your anchor can really be your best friend in such a situation. Another good tactic is just to tie up to the fuel dock (if it's closed) or raft up to someone in a good position for a while, while you wait for the wind to die down.
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Old 16-10-2012, 11:36   #29
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Re: Docking In Heavy Wind

The method described would work but with small margins. What about plan B?
Think about this suggestion:
If I had crew available I would consider putting a crew member on the dock, at some convenient nearby point.
Then proceed by pivoting the boat on the windward pole. Throw a line ashore to the crew member om the dock. Then slowly go stern to, by way of using the cockpit winches, slowly and under control. Plenty with lines to get the best geometry, depending on the circumstances. The crew member on the dock would come in handy here. One crew on the fore-deck slowly releasing a line to the windward pole, even, if possible, a line to the next pole to windward.

Did I tell you that I have done a few miles without an engine on-board ...?

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Old 16-10-2012, 11:42   #30
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Re: Docking In Heavy Wind

You all need to come sail The Bay. That'll learn ya!

At our marina ALL of the slips are crosswise to the wind and tide/current. all the time. And it's pretty common to be coming in with the wind at 25 knots. Just a nice summer day on the bay.

Folks with slips on the windward side often pull up and then drift back between the finger piers.

If you have a lee spot, as we do, we have just learned to take the windage into account, keep up sufficient momentum to make holding the course possible and do a fast back at the end to stop.

Changing out the 6hp for the 15hp helped a bunch too.

And when anyone returns the folks on the dock at the moment walk over to catch lines, so it's pretty rare that you have to go it alone.

This is a bit different from shooting between two poles and coming to rest moored to them (if I understand correctly the situation) as there is nothing to stabilize to as you come to rest. Interesting problem.
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