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Old 01-05-2014, 06:25   #61
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Re: Docking a Full Keel Heavy Displacement Sailboat

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Originally Posted by boat_alexandra View Post
Using an engine is cheating yourself out of the experience you will need when the engine is not working.

,

There are far more places where this can't be done with anything larger than a dinghy than where it's possible.

For instance even getting to my home slip much less into it with prevailing conditions isNt going to happen.
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Old 01-05-2014, 08:28   #62
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Re: Docking a Full Keel Heavy Displacement Sailboat

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........................

4. Using stern line jump onto dock and wrap around cleat .......
I like this plan, but this part of the advice can be misunderstood. I can do this because my deck at the low sheer is about 18" above a floating dock and I suspect this is an easy "step" for you on the Bristol 27. For those cruising on some of the modern designs with the huge freeboards or larger vessels, it is likely bad advice to "jump".
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Old 01-05-2014, 08:35   #63
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Re: Docking a Full Keel Heavy Displacement Sailboat

It's easier to just move the dock to the boat.
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Old 01-05-2014, 09:15   #64
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Re: Docking a Full Keel Heavy Displacement Sailboat

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I like this plan, but this part of the advice can be misunderstood. I can do this because my deck at the low sheer is about 18" above a floating dock and I suspect this is an easy "step" for you on the Bristol 27. For those cruising on some of the modern designs with the huge freeboards or larger vessels, it is likely bad advice to "jump".
CaptForce, unfortunately, I have to make this "jump". It's either that or lasso a piling. It was just too risky to try and throw a line around the piling with wind hitting our starboard bow. So, it became my duty to make the jump. We figured it was safer for one of us to be off the boat. Our Island Packet does have a high freeboard, so it makes for a bit of a scare. You know how when we were pups, we could jump with spring in our legs? Well, I've had to learn how to do that all over again. BTW, my hubby isn't as agile as I am, so I'm the lucky one.

If there was another way to dock, I sure would like to know about it.
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Old 01-05-2014, 09:37   #65
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Re: Docking a Full Keel Heavy Displacement Sailboat

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CaptForce, unfortunately, I have to make this "jump". ...........................
If there was another way to dock, I sure would like to know about it.
Maybe the decission to "jump" can be justified in a specific unique case and with a wise choice accounting for physical ability, but I would not accept it as a repeated procedure in a regular docking plan. If your plan requires reaching the dock from a high freeboard, then you might consider one of the single steps that can be suspended from your stanchions or rail and kicked over the side just prior to your need. With a hand on a shroud and a step a foot or so down from your deck, you may be able to take an easy step instead of the jump.

I'm in favor of a well thought out plan for a specific repeated docking locale. Our most frequently used slip is one that we back into at the starboard end of a fairway that has a cement dock keeping us from moving beyond the slip in order to maneuver. I stand at the bow pulpit with a bow and stern line temporarily tied together and signal to Nancie as our approach closes to the cement from 20, 15, 10, 5 feet..... as I signal for neutral and reverse, I step off level to the cement dock where I can help warp the stern in or fend off the bow. We only have about three feet to clear the boats at the bow and clear the dinghy on davits astern, but with the two lines ashore and foreward & reverse timing, it is a "piece of cake".

There are plans that can work well with stepping off the boat at the dock, but I'm one to avoid the jump. No doubt,- age is a factor too!
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Old 01-05-2014, 09:42   #66
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Re: Docking a Full Keel Heavy Displacement Sailboat

If your jumping everytime your doing something wrong. I have an IP and never jump. If you use the same dock premeasure your spring line.
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Old 01-05-2014, 09:54   #67
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Re: Docking a Full Keel Heavy Displacement Sailboat

Either way I'd pay for the plivledge to see someone sail into my slip.
You have to do a hard right 270 to get through two concrete sea walls, then in the next 100 ft of so two more 90 degree left turns. Be something to see
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Old 01-05-2014, 09:55   #68
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Re: Docking a Full Keel Heavy Displacement Sailboat

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CaptForce, unfortunately, I have to make this "jump". It's either that or lasso a piling. It was just too risky to try and throw a line around the piling with wind hitting our starboard bow. So, it became my duty to make the jump. We figured it was safer for one of us to be off the boat. Our Island Packet does have a high freeboard, so it makes for a bit of a scare. You know how when we were pups, we could jump with spring in our legs? Well, I've had to learn how to do that all over again. BTW, my hubby isn't as agile as I am, so I'm the lucky one.

If there was another way to dock, I sure would like to know about it.
Jumping is dangerous, and not good, eventually, for your knees or your back.

Have you considered adding something to the piling, like a line or line holder?

A firend of mine wrote this:

I've got a fixed midship line attached to the stern dock piling. Hang it on a long gutter nail on the piling as I pull out. On return it is easy to grab and place on the boat's midship cleat as the boat slowly glides into the slip. The admiral says it is one of the best improvements I've done, takes the scary out of docking.
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Old 01-05-2014, 10:43   #69
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Re: Docking a Full Keel Heavy Displacement Sailboat

Abrain, lot of good advice here, wish I were further south, I would stop by and see if I could help. Practice is your best ally. Get comfortable with how your boat moves, out away from the dock. I like to get out in open water and with the rudder at center engage the engine ahead and watch how your vessel responds. Then perform the same exercise in reverse and leave it in gear and observe which way she walks. After that repeat with varying degrees of rudder in both directions. Lastly going astern, take the engine out of gear and turn the rudder hard over in one direction and see how long it takes before the rudder overcomes the prop walk. While it is easier to dock your vessel using the prop walk to suck your stern in, it makes it harder to get away from the dock when it's time to go. Also wouldn't hurt to just take your boat out and drift to see what she does with the wind on different quarters. My general rule of thumb with throttle is to use no more than is needed to get the boat to do what I want it to do, of course there are times when you have to get on it a bit to execute your maneuver, and at the worst spot, it is almost as disastrous to abort as it is to forge ahead. Having said that, you need to have a plan before going in, and if you are just reacting, you are already in trouble. You also need to have a backup plan if things go against you. You will be better able to formulate both of those once you have more time at the wheel. In the mean time have plenty of big fenders handy and don't be shy about asking for help from the dock birds.
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Old 01-05-2014, 11:55   #70
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Re: Docking a Full Keel Heavy Displacement Sailboat

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Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
Jumping is dangerous, and not good, eventually, for your knees or your back.
Jumping keeps ya fit and quick feets. A good safety feature as the ability to sail into slip, me thinks..
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Old 01-05-2014, 12:02   #71
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Re: Docking a Full Keel Heavy Displacement Sailboat

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I have found a few boats that have a propeller cavitation problem. When the engine is over revved the propeller cavitates, or spins inside of a vacuum bubble.
Good to know. I'm sure glad my boat doesn't have that issue!!!

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Using an engine is cheating yourself out of the experience you will need when the engine is not working.
While most folks with slips can't possible sail into their slip (unless it's an end-tie), I think it would be a good idea to have a fallback plan. For example, there's usually a guest/transient dock, a fuel dock, or a working dock that is available to sail into if necessary. Not a bad idea at all to practice sailing into nice flat guest dock.

If you need to get your stern away from the boat next door or the bow to move over quickly, nothing beats a hard rudder and full power for a couple seconds in fwd gear. It's very possible to get into trouble in close quarters by not applying *enough* power to get the job done. Of course a roving fender helps cushion the learning curve.

I just moved to a new slip last night and it involves a left turn to get into position to back into it. I was way too slow to use full power with left full rudder to get the bow over. Prop walk doesn't help at all with a left turn.
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Old 01-05-2014, 12:57   #72
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Re: Docking a Full Keel Heavy Displacement Sailboat

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....If your plan requires reaching the dock from a high freeboard, then you might consider one of the single steps that can be suspended from your stanchions or rail and kicked over the side just prior to your need. With a hand on a shroud and a step a foot or so down from your deck, you may be able to take an easy step instead of the jump...
Hmmm...now that's a thought. I think I saw one of those in a catalog somewhere. Do you think the step is wide enough to step off forward? Stepping off backward seems a bit scary to me.

BTW, we dock bow in. Our finger dock is to starboard and usually when we come in, there is a wind onto the starboard bow. This makes it a tad interesting because of our port prop walk. We can't put it into reverse or we end up in our neighbor's lap.

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If your jumping everytime your doing something wrong. I have an IP and never jump. If you use the same dock premeasure your spring line.
Badsanta, our water level is high enough that our IP is well above the dock. I sure wish it was lower.

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Jumping keeps ya fit and quick feets. A good safety feature as the ability to sail into slip, me thinks..
Well, I've got it down pretty good but what really has helped is to let my hubby, who is at the helm, hold the bitter end of the mid-ship cleat docking line. That way, I don't have to throw him the end of the line. He simply wraps it around the stern cleat and puts the boat into forward, thereby moving the bow into the dock. Meanwhile, I am walking down the dock with the bow line in hand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson
Jumping is dangerous, and not good, eventually, for your knees or your back.
Yeah, I know that, Stu. However, perhaps one of those steps would help. It might be worth a try.
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Old 01-05-2014, 13:26   #73
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Re: Docking a Full Keel Heavy Displacement Sailboat

It should be a VERY rare occasion where jumping would be required. Between proper helmsmanship and proper line tossing technique, it should almost always be possible to get a line around a cleat or post to get the boat into a position to calmly step off onto the dock. It doesn't take much for a jump to go very badly.

Last year, my partner and I were actually taught to jump by our ASA instructor. We've since learned how to not have to jump. She is MUCH more comfortable with docking now.

The first requirement is a long enough dock line for the job. Too short and a loop cannot be thrown properly.
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Old 01-05-2014, 14:57   #74
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Re: Docking a Full Keel Heavy Displacement Sailboat

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Originally Posted by angelfish2 View Post
.................
BTW, we dock bow in. Our finger dock is to starboard and usually when we come in, there is a wind onto the starboard bow. This makes it a tad interesting because of our port prop walk. We can't put it into reverse or we end up in our neighbor's lap. .........................
I like BadSanta's advice back at post #66 regarding the springline. We usually choose to secure lines to windward when entering the slip.

I'm not clear with the reasoning about not backing down at entry. If the wind is on the starboard bow; then, a thrust in reverse would pivot the bow to starboard and, therfore, moving into the wind. I'm sure you've noticed that if you are moving parallel to a dock to starboard with no wind or current, a change to reverse in order to stop will turn your bow to starboard. Regardless, if steping to the fingerpier is a risk, I would arrange a means of using spring lines to position the boat in the slip before taking a step. Maybe you were speaking of your stern encroaching upon your neighbor when reversing. If so, the port spring would prevent that.
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Old 01-05-2014, 15:02   #75
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Re: Docking a Full Keel Heavy Displacement Sailboat

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...............
The first requirement is a long enough dock line for the job. Too short and a loop cannot be thrown properly.
'good point, but if it's your own slip that you are returning to from a day out; then, the best choice is to leave the loop and line on the piling and just pick it up with a boat hook when returning.
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