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Old 23-09-2009, 23:33   #31
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- - Boating and water safety is a very variable term depending upon where in the world you happen to be. Being backed up by boating professionals who teach in Canada is not going to do you any good in the T&C's or Bahamas or reefs in the Grenadines when you rip open a dinghy tube due to a reef you didn't see.
- - I was maybe less than precise about when I stand up - never when planing at high speed but only when puttering along at low speed trying to navigate reef channels and other obstructions that are liable to do serious harm to me or my dinghy. In this wide world there are no hard and fast rules, only variables appropriate to the locality you happen to be in at the time.
- - The areas in the Caribbean where you will see "standing" by reasonable cruisers - not locals or young hot-doggers - are in protected bays and anchorages and not in open water areas with significant wave activity. What is appropriate for the bays of Grenada or Trinidad is not the same as what's appropriate for Nova Scotia or even New England.
- - The "yuppies" are a new breed infesting the waters of the Caribbean. Fast, huge boats, both power and sailing catamarans that hang 25hp to 40hp engines on a 10 ft dinghy. Heck, anything above idle will get them going 20-30 kts in their dinghy. I hung a friend's 15hp on my 9 foot dinghy and scared the be-jezzus out of myself. Cracked the throttle and the bow was pointing at the mid-day sun and two seconds latter I was doing 20 kts above the surface of the water. I put my 5 hp back on and was much happier although it was a definite thrill there for awhile. The new wrinkle on these big yuppie cat's and power yachts is what I call the "jet-ski/dinghy." A 14 ft RIB dinghy with a saddle style seats in the middle with a jet-ski engine built in. I pity any endowed woman riding in one of those as it crashes, careens, and goes airborne for half of its way to the dock. But that's the new reality out here, so if you are heading this way you will learn to live with it or just head off to somewhere else.
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Old 24-09-2009, 13:10   #32
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Another grave experience - Bora Bora, snorkeling and nearly gotten run down by a speeding jet-ski. Did not bother to slow down even though my dink and the tracking float were there.

;-(
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Old 24-09-2009, 18:04   #33
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Osirisail

I am glad to her that you are one of those who stays seated in the dingy when planing along through an anchorage.

I would agree with you that momentarily standing up in a dingy while at slow speed to get a good visual check of immediate dangers when navigating a particulary difficult reef or passage would be prudent. The speed should be very modest, perhaps less than two certainly no more than three knots, and so long as the dingy is stable, ie, no unruly wave or other issues present.

I disagree that standing up while zipping through an anchorage in a dingy is suitable depending on where that anchorage may be located or how well protected it may be. It makes no difference whether the anchorage is a protected anchorage in Novia Scotia, Scotland, South Africa or the Carribean. I think is is just not prudent seamanship to be standing up in a dingy holding on to the bowline and extension tiller as a primary method of bracing. There is no good reason for the practice that would lead me to overide the concern for inadverently being tossed over the side.

Regarding speed, if you are in a protected anchorage, and you are the only boat, perhaps it is ok to zip around at any speed you like (provided you are seated), but the more crowded the anchorage, the more prudent the speed should be. The analogy is sort of like driving a car through a parking lot that is deserted, one does not need to creep along at a snails pace to get to where you are going in that case, but as the parking lot gets more crowded and busier, the slower you need to operate the vehicle to make things safer for everyone. It is what is prudent and reasonable.

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Old 24-09-2009, 18:13   #34
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WELL, now that we've covered the idiots who stand up in their dinghies, lets get on to those even worse idiots who stand up on their surfboards. Why, they don't have lanyards to a kill switch, nor do they ever wear life jackets, and they often are seen in areas with big waves. On the other hand, they don't often speed through the anchorage...

Seriously, I'm as concerned as anyone about irresponsible dinghy operation, whether it be tying large dinks to docks with short painters or speeding through crowded anchorages (an issue in many areas well beyond the Caribe). But these diatribes against the practice of standing up in one's dinghy seem pretty silly to me. We've been cruising full time for 23 years (all in Mexico and the South Pacific) and we've NEVER heard of a dinghy accident CAUSED by the operator standing up. Sure, I certainly can imagine such a happening, but in our experience it doesn't seem to be happening very damn often. Most of the dinghy accidents we've been aware of have been at nignt, and have involved unlit boats (both dinghies and local work/fishing boats) colliding. Alcohol is often involved as well.

My personal practice often involves the dread standing up, even whilst planing. This is in a 3.5 M RIB w/ 15 hp. It is a pretty stable boat under most conditions, and yet, when I don't feel quite comfortable with the motion, why I just sit down, and even at times go slower! What I am getting at is that blanket condemnations of a practice seem to lack consideration of the vessel involved, the sea conditions, the degree of congestion and the abilities of the operator.

Finally, I must agree that in all too many locations, the bloody jet-skis, especially hired ones in resort areas , are a far greater hazard and nuisance than any number of planing dinghies!

Cheers,

Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II
lying Mele Bay, Efate Island, Vanuatu (where there ain't no jetskis right now!)
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Old 24-09-2009, 18:23   #35
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Why is no-one stating the obvious? Zooming around at 20knts while standing in a dinghy is fun.

In an anchorage, it's also more than a bit bourgeois. Behavior best left to the powerboaters.
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Old 24-09-2009, 19:11   #36
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Hi Jim Cate

I loved Vanuato while I was there except for the reef I hit (not in my dingy but in the good ship Juno, just a slightly bent rudder! Yes there is a stupidity story there about my hitting the reef, but that is another topic for another thread) ! I really enjoyed Tana, the 12 k hike up to the volcanoe from the bay was lots of fun but hard on these old legs! Seeing the vocanoe at night fall was extraoridinary!

I only know first hand of an instance where a guy standing in a dingy fell over, he only got his knee opened up when the dingy went over him. Two weeks in a hospital, three months in therapy and still limps. This was several years ago in the Bahamas. Another poster has mentioned he knew of another, the guy got 1000 stitches. One other poster indicated that he had heard from a friend of several other instances in Bermuda. I think we as a community are fortunate that there are not more of these types of accidents, perhaps it is due to the experience of the current set of practioners, perhaps we just do not hear of the stories. But I woud opine that if the practice continues to be condoned, perhaps less experienced folks will think it is safe to operate in such a manner, and there will be more instances that will be known to all.

Regarding speeding in anchorages, I suspect the rational ofy go fast attitude of jet skiers in anchorages is "yachties do it in their dingies, why can't I on my jet ski?" I have never had the ocassion to chat with one of these folks, so the thought above is mere conjecture on my part, but it would be an argument I would expect a jet skier to make.

Dialogue on these kinds of topics is healthy, so long as people do not get personal or abusive in discussing their opinions. These are after all just opinions; but over time, if consensus is reached, there becomes an accepted norm and standard. I doubt this thread is going to do that among all seaman or even cruisers world wide, but at least those of us who are participating will have a better understanding of how others view a given set of actions. I have gained useful insight into this issue of standing up that I did not have before, and I understand better the ratioanl of those who chose to do so, I do not agree with it but I have a better understanding of their position. That is enough for me.

I agree that there are lots of other bad practices out there, why not start a thread on those?
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Old 25-09-2009, 10:18   #37
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Most of the problems with general dink misuse is from Locals and Charter people (including bareboat and skippered) and not very often from cruisers. In West End, locals run solomons through the mooring field in speed boats with out mufflers. I always enjoy it when they swamp themselves on a turn and the engine dies.
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Old 25-09-2009, 10:37   #38
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a bit of semantics

Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherT34C View Post
Why is no-one stating the obvious? Zooming around at 20knts while standing in a dinghy is fun.

In an anchorage, it's also more than a bit bourgeois. Behavior best left to the powerboaters.
If your dink does 20 knots, you ARE a powerboater.
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Old 25-09-2009, 10:45   #39
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Originally Posted by Tom Hildebrandt View Post
Hi Jim Cate

Regarding speeding in anchorages, I suspect the rational ofy go fast attitude of jet skiers in anchorages is "yachties do it in their dingies, why can't I on my jet ski?" I have never had the ocassion to chat with one of these folks, so the thought above is mere conjecture on my part, but it would be an argument I would expect a jet skier to make.
ugh... jet skiers...

"My mama taught me that if I didn't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all..." so I am saying a WHOLE lotta nuttin here...
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Old 25-09-2009, 13:24   #40
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i used to plane my caribe, but now i have a roll up and a 3 1/.2 horse and that doesnt plane anything--yes, is great fun to plane but there is a time and a place for same......i am able to handle my rig solo if need be--i am a solo female and so must consider that when i purchase and use anything aboard my formosa 41.....lol.......i have my walker bay and my avon and my kayak-----they are all handle-able by one female. i will plane when in someone else's dink with that person lol....btdt-- and i am female so i donot have to prove i have or donot have the appendage that makes most males act stoopit--- LOL .. and guys-keep on standing up at 20 kts--is GREAT entertainment LOL
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Old 25-09-2009, 14:32   #41
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After my pacific crossing (30ft cat) I have been in my dingy (11 ft) many miles

Most of the time I have been sitting down, but there is times standing is much better. Especially where you think it can be reefs, bouys, lines etc.

One of the best advice I can give one who is about to start cruising is GET A BIG DINGY with hard bottom. We have been on so many dingy trips to nearby islands. Next time I will go cruising I will get an even bigger dingy, maybe 14ft.

/Andreas
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Old 25-09-2009, 19:54   #42
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After my pacific crossing (30ft cat) I have been in my dingy (11 ft) many miles

Most of the time I have been sitting down, but there is times standing is much better. Especially where you think it can be reefs, bouys, lines etc.

One of the best advice I can give one who is about to start cruising is GET A BIG DINGY with hard bottom. We have been on so many dingy trips to nearby islands. Next time I will go cruising I will get an even bigger dingy, maybe 14ft.

/Andreas
www.7hav.se

bigger does not mean better. if you believe this, then come on and be my boat slave--YOU can load the damn thing and YOU can lift the 150 pound dink and the 120 pound engine --btw--a 9' rigid caribe dink is 145 pounds without water in between the hulls LOL--is 600 plus with the water between the hulls---and yes--there WILL be water between the hulls of the caribe you have lol---sooo----for those of you beginning to cruise--unless you enjoy slaving to lift your million pound dink and thousand pound engine----get smaller and softer lol..means lighter and easier in the long run......and i have a formosa--which has much freeboard to lift dinks and engines over lol...the bigger is better crowd is the crowd offerring the best entertainment when loading and off loading theoir dinks and trying to survive the weight and look like real people----very very funny folks..almost as good as the crowd of stinkpotcannotanchor group lol.......
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Old 25-09-2009, 20:09   #43
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- - If you ever get to Antigua and Falmouth Harbour you will seeing sailing (?) ships so big that they have 5 spreaders, 5 satellite domes and red hazard lights at night for low flying aircraft. One of these "private yachts" opened up a huge panel door in the side of the vessel and out came their "dinghy" - a 40 ft Sport Fisherman. Hydraulic rails launched their "dinghy" and then the "dinghy" had a 14ft RIB on its foredeck which they launched with a small crane. Now that's really one-ups-manship over the other super yachts. This is probably the only time your "dinghy" IS proportional to the size of your boat.
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Old 25-09-2009, 20:29   #44
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hail--in san diego the megas that come in have 90 ft cigarette boats as "dinks" lol.....i have a 41 formosa and use a 9 ft avon with inflatable sole and a 3 1/2 nissan outboard..i have a walker bay 8 ft and a kayak--i can load them and deploy them without assist of boat slave lol--i used to have the 9 ft caribe and 9.8 hp 4 stroke engine and the water between the hulls and alll of that---i decided to trade it all in for lighter and smaller lol......and i cruise lol.....
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Old 25-09-2009, 21:29   #45
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It all boils down to Common Courtesy and Common Sense-------Both of which seem to be on the decline
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