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Old 27-01-2016, 12:24   #76
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Re: Difficult/sloppy crew

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Originally Posted by monte View Post
We have quiet a bit of rope on board in our rope bag ��
Is the rope bag stowed in the rope locker?
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Old 27-01-2016, 12:45   #77
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Re: Difficult/sloppy crew

G'day Sovereign,

This thread has given you a lot of food for thought.... So, have you decided on any courses of action?

Ann
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Old 27-01-2016, 13:02   #78
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Re: Difficult/sloppy crew

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Further, my boat does not have a galley, it has a kitchen; no heads but 2 bathrooms; and I sleep in a bed not a bunk.


)
Don't forget those windows!
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Old 27-01-2016, 13:15   #79
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Re: Difficult/sloppy crew

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
G'day Sovereign,

This thread has given you a lot of food for thought.... So, have you decided on any courses of action?

Ann
Many, yes, haha.

I think next time out we are going to focus on reminding ourselves, myself included, of the basics that we do know in a fun and educational atmosphere. That may be easier said than done but I think we can manage it. The excitement to get on the water and sail has us skipping sharing what we've learned with each other until we're already under way and by that time it's too late to do it right.

Someone else is going to take the helm and get their confidence back after we're through familiarization.

Instruction is optional, so each person can decide that for themselves. I think we should take the boat out separately some as well.

And we will have to discuss expectations and responsibilities, as well as communication.
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Old 27-01-2016, 13:26   #80
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Re: Difficult/sloppy crew

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Don't forget those windows!
Which windows? The ones in the lounge room?



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Old 27-01-2016, 14:05   #81
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Re: Difficult/sloppy crew

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Originally Posted by tropicalescape View Post
I will answer the question..There are no "ropes" in the rigging of a sailboat..
Oh? How about the bolt rope on the mainsail, or foot ropes beneath the yards on a square-rigger?

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Old 27-01-2016, 15:22   #82
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Re: Difficult/sloppy crew

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Oh? How about the bolt rope on the mainsail, or foot ropes beneath the yards on a square-rigger?

jim
Ok you got me..I prefer sliders myself as opposed to just a bolt rope type system as it is very hard to single hand lowering and raising the sail with just a bolt rope type system,god forbid it jump the track!(even with sliders you still have a bolt rope huh? but is it a "real rope" in the context of what we are talking about?)..Do people still use just the bolt rope type system other than people that race(so as to keep that little bit of air from going between the sail and mast)..Dont know much about square rigged boats..
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Old 27-01-2016, 15:33   #83
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Re: Difficult/sloppy crew

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Originally Posted by Sovereign797 View Post
Many, yes, haha.



I think next time out we are going to focus on reminding ourselves, myself included, of the basics that we do know in a fun and educational atmosphere. That may be easier said than done but I think we can manage it. The excitement to get on the water and sail has us skipping sharing what we've learned with each other until we're already under way and by that time it's too late to do it right.



Someone else is going to take the helm and get their confidence back after we're through familiarization.



Instruction is optional, so each person can decide that for themselves. I think we should take the boat out separately some as well.



And we will have to discuss expectations and responsibilities, as well as communication.

I have to give you a lot of credit for being open enough to seek advice, patient enough to wade through the sarcastic comments (including my earlier response) and wise enough to take some of the good advice offered. I'm hopeful for you that with unemotional communication you and your partners will figure this out together.

Three way shared ownership probably will present many challenges beyond standard seamanship. Keep us informed how it goes with this messy cockpit issue and also with all the other issues like cleaning, maintenance and upgrades. Wishing you fair wind and calm seas.


S/V B'Shert
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Old 28-01-2016, 01:56   #84
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Re: Difficult/sloppy crew

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Originally Posted by exMaggieDrum View Post
My wife and I have decided that for the most part having crew on board for anything more than a short outing is not worth the hassles. It seems that knowledgeable crew can't seem to avoid telling us "the best way to do something", some crew don't like being told what to do in any situation, and some crew are incapable of following any suggestions/orders at all even if they agree with them. Having said that we have had many enjoyable situations where the guests were not really crew even when they wanted to "help".

If there are things that are not potentially hazardous for them or the boat or others, there is no problem with them helping. And, we have some sailor friends that we welcome on the boat who will ask if something is appropriate or not and allow us to give them the go-ahead which is something we try to do on others boats. In an emergency we wouldn't take offense if someone did something to save themselves, others, or the boat, even if they didn't do it "exactly" the way we would have done it.

We have decided to just double-hand for all offshore passages though. We have seen that some just can't help themselves in what or how they do things, or overshare advice, even when they really don't know what they are talking about, or don't know our boat, etc.

We are the opposite of anti-social but don't like getting in to situations where misunderstandings can lead to frustrations on either side. Things can get very emotional offshore it seems with strong opinions at play about many things. I know that I have had to bite my tongue pretty severely a few times when I have crewed on other boats when I thought things were not being done in a safe manner or for the wrong reasons. Conversely, I have been criticized for doing things in a different way than the skipper likes and that can be hard to take sometimes.

It really boils down to chemistry and etiquette. We enjoy taking neophytes out if it suits them and us. But not offshore.
This is my wife's and my experience also
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Old 29-01-2016, 15:21   #85
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Re: Difficult/sloppy crew

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Originally Posted by Sovereign797 View Post
Ok, so I am a new sailor, my whole crew is, in fact, and since the whole thing was my idea and I have done the most research and continue to, we all agree I'm the skipper.



I'm a bit of a perfectionist and especially since we're all learning I like a clean boat, a place for everything and everything in its place. Especially the ropes. I don't like lines laying everywhere, tangled with each other. I keep them tidy myself but when I'm on the helm I can see my crew struggling and it's because they take no care with their area, not because they don't know what is expected for the simple maneuvers we're doing.



My question is, should I address this or let it go and allow them to see their own mistakes? My instinct is to address it, but that may just be my perfectionism.



It feels a bit odd to act like I know better than they when we've all sailed the same amount.

When I've made mention of it in passing, the response is along the lines of, 'it's fine.'

Don't let it go, just do it yourself.
And they will see your example.
Eventually, they'll get it.


Sent from SV Cloud Duster
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Old 29-01-2016, 15:47   #86
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Re: Difficult/sloppy crew

"until a puff nearly knocked down"


See, there's an old and fairly blunt saying among sailors: **** happens.
Sanitize it ay way you please, but no matter how prepared you are, how trained you are, how well you have inspected and anticipated things...**** happens.


One day, during "lunch break" between two races on LI Sound, I went below deck to use the head. We happened to be loosely tied head-to-side, side by side, with another boat just passing the time until the afternoon start, in zero wind, and probably five miles of open water to any side of us.


What could possibly go wrong?!


What went wrong was some *hole in a powerboat shooting close by at full throttle, throwing enough wake to rock both boats, tangling the spreaders and damn near bringing the rigging down. A boat that wasn't even visible, or audible, when I stepped below for a fast minute.


And this is why we keep everything on a boat "in a certain way". When things go wrong, they can go wrong very quickly. They cascade, and the "wrong" gets worse, fast, unless you can stop it faster. And you can't stop it faster unless the winch handle is ALWAYS in the same place, and the sheets are ALWAYS coiled or free to run, and the unblock is never just perched on the side deck, because it will be gone before you can grab it.


Doing everything in a standard way, in a neat way, so that anyone on board doesn't need (waste) time to think, but can respond to whatever happens immediately, is part of seamanship.


Eventually sailors learn that, or they wind up taking up golf.
"A place for everything, and everything in it's place."


Ask anyone who has lived with a big dog: It doesn't take long before you learn to leave the toilet lid down, all the time. Not just the seat, but the lid too.(G)


Doing things right, like adequately pumping the head on the boat, is either going to become habit fast, or come back to bite you, sooner or later.


Now of course as skipper, it is your job to wrap that all up and make your crew WANT to know it.(G)
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Old 29-01-2016, 15:51   #87
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Re: Difficult/sloppy crew

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...as skipper, it is your job to wrap that all up and make your crew WANT to know it.(G)
He's not the skipper.
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Old 29-01-2016, 16:07   #88
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Re: Difficult/sloppy crew

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I disagree! A tiddly cockpit is not what you are after. Yes it is much safer but its more unsafe to have resentful crew with Captain Bligh spinning the wheel!

The cockpit on some racing boats is a slithering sea of lines... one wonders how they win races and don't get their legs ripped off in winches...

But imho its better to go lightly and leave your perfectionism to learning the racing rules (which can be quite complicated)
As your crew get better they will realise constantly coiling ropes is better, faster and safer. However if you crack the whip they will wave to you from the bar while you sail by yourself.

Mark
I am definitely in this camp.
Make it fun and don't sweat the small stuff.
Give people the space to enjoy themselves and they will learn on their own as they go.
Sounds to me as though you know marginally more than the rest of the crew.
These people are your partners. IMHO you should allow everyone a chance to be "Skipper of the Day" before there is a mutiny.
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Old 29-01-2016, 16:18   #89
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Re: Difficult/sloppy crew

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Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
He's not the skipper.
Quote from the OP:

"Ok, so I am a new sailor, my whole crew is, in fact, and since the whole thing was my idea and I have done the most research and continue to, we all agree I'm the skipper."

There can be only one - and he's it.
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Old 29-01-2016, 16:23   #90
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Re: Difficult/sloppy crew

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Originally Posted by Sovereign797 View Post
Ok, so I am a new sailor, my whole crew is, in fact, and since the whole thing was my idea and I have done the most research and continue to, we all agree I'm the skipper.
.'
They may also "all agree" on something else that you are not aware of...
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