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Old 27-01-2016, 08:23   #61
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Re: Difficult/sloppy crew

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Keeping the lines clear and free is not anything like being a perfectionist. That is just very basic safety and seamanship.

Clean, clear decks are the first step in preventing trips, falls, injuries and man overboard situations. Fouled lines in strong winds could cause you to lose the mast or worse.
Mark told him to lighten up. The OP said he was a perfectionist. Perfectionists do not lighten up easily. I chose a light approach to saying that.
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Old 27-01-2016, 08:36   #62
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Re: Difficult/sloppy crew

A picture is worth a thousand words.Try post a pic of your cockpit for some advice on line storage. Usually underway you will just have a few lines that aren't tidied away prior to sailing. A mainsheet, jib sheets, maybe a traveller. Halyards and Reefing lines can generally be put away. Minimise the lines in the first place and life will be simpler. Crew usually like to have something to do other than sit on the rail and will figure out keeping their station tidy is as good a thing as any to do. As they get sick of untangling sheets or retrieving them from overboard, they find ways to avoid those problems in the first place. Don't coil them and throw them over the nearest winch..ouch..
Often you don't need to use a whole sheet so coil the tail in a sheet bag and just leave the part being used free to deal with. Flake the remaining line somewhere safe and tidy between the bag and winch. Adding some sheet bags where appropriate and lanyards here and there to secure unused lines helps keep things tidy. Make sure everyone stays onboard after a sail till the boat is packed up. That way everyone learns the place for everything and takes part in improvement ideas. Btw, it's not just the skippers job to tell the crew what to do. The crew have a responsibility to tell other crew and the skipper of anything related to safety, organisation, going faster, weather conditions etc
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Old 27-01-2016, 09:04   #63
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Re: Difficult/sloppy crew

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Mark told him to lighten up. The OP said he was a perfectionist. Perfectionists do not lighten up easily. I chose a light approach to saying that.
OK I can agree with that 100%. Have dealt with perfectionists before and they can be a pain. However, having an issue with lines laying about the boat would not fall into that category.

OP should certainly try to keep it light. After all, boating (unless you are doing it commercially) is for fun. Try to pick the important issues and address them in a low key, tactful manner and let go of the small stuff.
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Old 27-01-2016, 09:56   #64
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Re: Difficult/sloppy crew

Let me give voice to the other side. My husband is a recovering perfectionist. It pervades every part of his life - career choice, hobbies, (wife? that'd be good).

When he was teaching me to sail it was very difficult for both of us. He was teaching (barking) and I was not learning (sulking). We have learned two lessons the hard way over the last twenty years and I give them to you and hope they will be of some use:

We both agreed to the following -

Him - Anything related to safety was spoken in clear, calm but commanding voice, issues that just pissed him off were discussed in that complaining voice I don't really pay attention to.

Me - Any orders issued in a clear, calm and commanding voice were obeyed immediately and without question. If I didn't understand I would say - exactly in these words "I don't understand, say it another way".

This allowed safety to become an entirely separate issue from learning to sail. Discussion was for after the event and by that time I had A) seen the danger
B) not been spoken to like a 12 year old C) learned something - all fostering a crew mentality.

I had to sign on to this with no reservations. He was vastly more knowledgeable than I and I wanted to sail. The greatest lesson from all of this that we both have been using in every aspect of life is that TONE OF VOICE IS EVERYTHING. You will be listened to or ignored based on that. The content of the message is actually secondary to it's method of delivery in the beginning. If you have unanimously been declared captain then (equal ownership or not) then it's up to you to set the safety standards on that boat.

Perhaps have the other crew members read this thread, just so they understand the issues more fully? Good luck!
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Old 27-01-2016, 10:16   #65
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Re: Difficult/sloppy crew

My wife and I have decided that for the most part having crew on board for anything more than a short outing is not worth the hassles. It seems that knowledgeable crew can't seem to avoid telling us "the best way to do something", some crew don't like being told what to do in any situation, and some crew are incapable of following any suggestions/orders at all even if they agree with them. Having said that we have had many enjoyable situations where the guests were not really crew even when they wanted to "help".

If there are things that are not potentially hazardous for them or the boat or others, there is no problem with them helping. And, we have some sailor friends that we welcome on the boat who will ask if something is appropriate or not and allow us to give them the go-ahead which is something we try to do on others boats. In an emergency we wouldn't take offense if someone did something to save themselves, others, or the boat, even if they didn't do it "exactly" the way we would have done it.

We have decided to just double-hand for all offshore passages though. We have seen that some just can't help themselves in what or how they do things, or overshare advice, even when they really don't know what they are talking about, or don't know our boat, etc.

We are the opposite of anti-social but don't like getting in to situations where misunderstandings can lead to frustrations on either side. Things can get very emotional offshore it seems with strong opinions at play about many things. I know that I have had to bite my tongue pretty severely a few times when I have crewed on other boats when I thought things were not being done in a safe manner or for the wrong reasons. Conversely, I have been criticized for doing things in a different way than the skipper likes and that can be hard to take sometimes.

It really boils down to chemistry and etiquette. We enjoy taking neophytes out if it suits them and us. But not offshore.
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Old 27-01-2016, 10:31   #66
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Re: Difficult/sloppy crew

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Originally Posted by redhead View Post
Him - Anything related to safety was spoken in clear, calm but commanding voice, issues that just pissed him off were discussed in that complaining voice I don't really pay attention to.



Quote:
Originally Posted by redhead View Post
Me - Any orders issued in a clear, calm and commanding voice were obeyed immediately and without question. If I didn't understand I would say - exactly in these words "I don't understand, say it another way".
Have evolved a similar process here. After 35 years it has become clear to me that my wife and I don't really speak the same language.

Oh the words are the same and usually (but not always) have the same meaning for both of us, but the ways we put them together to convey complex information are radically different.


Quote:
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The greatest lesson from all of this that we both have been using in every aspect of life is that TONE OF VOICE IS EVERYTHING. You will be listened to or ignored based on that. The content of the message is actually secondary to it's method of delivery in the beginning. If you have unanimously been declared captain then (equal ownership or not) then it's up to you to set the safety standards on that boat.
Like Gary Cooper said in The Virginian, "When you call me that, smile." Yes, tone and delivery can be 99% of meaning, making the same sentence an insult or a compliment; a rude command or a polite request; fighting words or a joke.
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Old 27-01-2016, 10:46   #67
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Re: Difficult/sloppy crew

Perfectionist in an non-perfect world seem to cause trouble for themselves when dealing with people that are not perfect..You may find out that what you need as crew are perfect people that are closer to perfection than the average person..Or like some including yourself have suggested just ignore what does not seem perfect and hope that they come around before they get you or themselves into some sort of trouble..If all on board are "greenhorns" including yourself you may find that you do more arguing than sailing...It would seem to me that a person that is a perfectionist should learn to sail in a perfect manner before boarding a boat with others that are not perfect..The first sign of someone that is not capable of sailing a boat with others is someone that yells or gets excited when the crew does something that is not perfect(if you have experienced this then maybe you may want to get your sea legs about you before trying to sail with others that dont have their sea legs about them...Hope it all works out for you and them as you sail to far and wonderful places ..Good luck and smooth sailing...
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Old 27-01-2016, 10:51   #68
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Re: Difficult/sloppy crew

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Sovereign, you've provided a perfect segway for some sailboat trivia, and since you apparently enjoy research...

How many ropes on a boat?

I will answer the question..There are no "ropes" in the rigging of a sailboat..
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Old 27-01-2016, 11:01   #69
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Re: Difficult/sloppy crew

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It really boils down to chemistry and etiquette. We enjoy taking neophytes out if it suits them and us. But not offshore.
Back when I was doing deliveries we were frequently looking an extra hand just to help stand watches and took total neophytes, friends and a couple of times total strangers, as crew several times. The great majority of the time it worked out great but once in a while I got a dud.
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Old 27-01-2016, 11:11   #70
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Re: Difficult/sloppy crew

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How many ropes on a boat?

2

Bell rope

Bolt rope
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Old 27-01-2016, 11:15   #71
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Re: Difficult/sloppy crew

We have quiet a bit of rope on board in our rope bag 💰
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Old 27-01-2016, 11:23   #72
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Re: Difficult/sloppy crew

Then we have the rope/chain rode. And the rope ladder.
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Old 27-01-2016, 11:50   #73
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Re: Difficult/sloppy crew

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2

Bell rope

Bolt rope
On a square rigger you also have a foot rope and what about a tow rope?
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Old 27-01-2016, 12:03   #74
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Re: Difficult/sloppy crew

Redhead: Great post!!



Re ropes.

I have many ropes on board.

Further, my boat does not have a galley, it has a kitchen; no heads but 2 bathrooms; and I sleep in a bed not a bunk.


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Old 27-01-2016, 12:23   #75
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Re: Difficult/sloppy crew

In addition to the ones mentioned, The Sailors Word Book http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/26000 lists lots of additional ropes.

Interesting read by the way. Over 700 pages of terminology from the days of sail, some archaic but a lot still in common usage. After reaching "C" I gave up as it seems like there's a lot more ropes than I imagined.

AWNING-ROPES. The ridge and side ropes for securing the awning.

BACK-ROPE. The rope-pendant, or small chain for staying the dolphin-striker. Also a piece long enough to reach from the cat-block to the[67] stem, and up to the forecastle, to haul the cat-block forward to hook the ring of the anchor—similarly also for hooking the fish-tackle

BREAST-ROPE. The lashing or laniard of the yard-parrels. (See also Horse.) Also, the bight of a mat-worked band fastened between the shrouds for the safety of the lad's-man in the chains, when sounding, so that he may hang over the water, and let the lead swing clear.

BUCKET-ROPE. That which is tied to a bucket for drawing water up from alongside.

BUOY-ROPE. The rope which attaches the buoy to the anchor, which should always be of sufficient strength to lift the anchor should the cable part; it should also be little more in length than equal to the depth of the water (at high-water) where the anchor lies.—To bend the buoy-rope, pass the running eye over one fluke, take a hitch over the other arm, and seize. Or, take a clove-hitch over the crown on each arm or fluke, stopping the end to its own part, or to the shank.

CAT-ROPE. A line for hauling the cat-hook about: also cat-back-rope, which hauls the block to the ring of the anchor in order to hook it.

CHEST-ROPE. The same with the guest or gift rope, and is added to the boat-rope when the boat is towed astern of the ship, to keep her from sheering, i.e. from swinging to and fro. (See Guess-warp.)
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