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Old 07-10-2008, 21:54   #31
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Would you run in front of a bus even if you were in a crosswalk? Whatever the rules say, the guy in the small boat used really poor judgement.
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Old 07-10-2008, 22:37   #32
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Here yall go

<<Okay...
reviewing my own pics, the smaller vessel did not round up. They tacked. I wasn't really paying attention to them much; l I knew they were there, they were close but all was well, then the all of a sudden here they come. It looked at first like they would be hit by MF, not the other way around. That would have made their day far worse. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I just grabbed a camera and started shooting.

The smaller boat was on a starboard tack and MF was on port at the time of impact. I guess those dudes on the smaller boat just didn't see it. I really have no idea how else they could have put themselves there.

The smaller boat did not put down sails after the accident, either. They fled. First toward the Bay Bridge, then towards Richmond. It was 20 minutes before the Falcon caught up with the other vessel. They gave five blasts. The smaller boat held course under full sail still. That's when the CG arrived and told the other boat to take her sails down. They took it from there.>>

Peter Lyons, the photographer who shot the collision


Post #38

Maltese Falcon T boned moments ago - Sailing Anarchy Forums
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Old 07-10-2008, 22:49   #33
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After reflecting on the SB vs MF crash, what would motivate the SB to flee the scene?

Substance abuse could certainly account for the unpredictable tack into MF, and substance abuse could certainly impair logic to the point of thinking one could outrun that big ole boat!

But then maybe the skipper was married and it was his girlfriend at the helm...

Ah, typical sailor tale...
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Old 08-10-2008, 00:19   #34
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If you want to check out this gorgeous boat, here it is:

View Boat Photos - YachtWorld.com

Hope the link works!!
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Old 08-10-2008, 10:34   #35
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That's a big MF!

I took pictures of it when it first came into the bay, and I was amazed that there weren't any collisions then.
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Old 08-10-2008, 11:14   #36
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I took a bunch of photos up close before the collision. I will post a few this evening. It is truly an amazing boat up close.
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Old 08-10-2008, 11:18   #37
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Anyone else note in the later pictures that they had no less than 17 people in the tender? Even though it's a good size tender, I'll bet it was 1) overloaded and 2) that there weren't 17 life jackets in it. If I were SB's lawyer, I'd use that in a court of law to show that MF's owner/crew might have a habit of not always following the rules...
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Old 08-10-2008, 12:18   #38
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I got a different impression from reading that. I figure "roughly reciprocal course" means they were approaching each other roughly head on. After passing the bow, SB then turns into MF, presumably intending to get to a parallel course to stay along side to look or take pictures. They lost control and didn't come about as fast as they intended and made contact. During this, MF was bearing away to port to allow more room.

I'm not saying that's what happened. I'm just saying that the way I read MF's owner's description, I think that is what he was saying.

-dan
How is your impression different from mine? "Green to green" means "roughly reciprocal" - Perkins stated a 200-ft separation. I'm simply pointing out that it would be mathematically impossible for SB to cover a distance of 200 ft while MF moved forward only 150 ft - unless you believe that a 300-ft ship heeled over under full sail was going half-as-fast as the 40-ft boat (taking into account the time needed for the 40-footer to turn 90 degrees to starboard). If you believe Mr Perkin's assertion that they allowed 200 feet for passing, and assume that SB was already on a perpendicular course at hull speed (approx 8 kts) when MF crossed their bow, then you have to believe that MF was only going 6 kts - do you think that is at all credible?
Being charitable, we could assume MF was only going 15 kts, and SB (even piloted by poor sailors as some have suggested) would be going about 5 kts - the passing distance would be less than 50 feet. The photographer actually said it looked like MF was going to hit SB for awhile. Since he hadn't even seen SB until she was very close, it doesn't take a leap to assume it looked disastrous from SB's perspective and a bold alteration to starboard may have been their effort to avoid collision. By then it would have been too late to alter back to port; not to mention they would be in irons.
I cannot imagine why they would run away, but hasten to add that it's dangerous to believe only one side's point-of-view. From the pictures it hardly looks like they're running - it looks more like they're sailing We don't know if they corresponded with either MF or the authorities by VHF or cell phone. Their only requirements are to offer assistance to the other boat and exchange identities - there is no requirement otherwise for them to stop. Personally if I had that sort of damage to my boat, I'd be heading home, but for all we know, that's just what they were doing. Maybe they decided to try to salvage a bit of that fine sailing weather.
I am in no way trying to defend the crew of SB or their actions, but I don't think we should make the assumption that the big, pretty boat is always in the right.

JMO,

Kevin
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Old 08-10-2008, 12:28   #39
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If you look very carefully at all the photos in the sequence in which SB is approaching MF, and look at the "large" versions, which have a lot more resolution, you can see that the two guys on SB simply did not appear to be paying attention.

The guy in the yellow jacket was facing aft and appears to be focused on something at the pedestal. He doesn't turn forward until the bow wave of MF slaps the smaller boat and breaks over it's bow. you can see the wave's spray in two of the photos. The sound and impact of the wave got his attention and caused him to look forward.

If the helmsman was paying attention, why didn't he say something to his friend before that instant in time? Like, "Hey, Joe, there's this big MF sailboat in front of us. What should I do?" His hands on the wheel didn't move from the 10 and 2 positions. He was probably watching yellow jacket do whatever he was doing at the pedestal.

A case of being asleep at the switch, IMHO.
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Old 08-10-2008, 12:58   #40
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I'm simply pointing out that it would be mathematically impossible for SB to cover a distance of 200 ft while MF moved forward only 150 ft
I don't think you said it wrong the first time, I think I just didn't read what you said carefully enough the first time. I get your point, now. And given the limited knowledge we have of the situation, I'd agree with your assessment.

Of course, this doesn't automatically mean it was MFs fault, just that the explanations given don't seem to fit. Could be the owner's statement wasn't as clear as it should be, and could be they have some inaccuracies, like the turn started before the bow was passed. Could be he's flat out lying. Who knows. Regardless, the most telling fact to me is that SB ran. But, who knows, there may be a strange fact that explains that. I can't imagine what it might be, but experience tells me now to never count out any possibility.

Anyway, thanks for patiently re-explaining it to me. Sometimes I'm slow on the uptake.

-dan
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Old 08-10-2008, 13:19   #41
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HUD,

I just don't know how to take....that big MF boat....was that....big MFn boat?
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Old 08-10-2008, 14:59   #42
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Originally Posted by Hud3 View Post
If you look very carefully at all the photos in the sequence in which SB is approaching MF, and look at the "large" versions, which have a lot more resolution, you can see that the two guys on SB simply did not appear to be paying attention.

The guy in the yellow jacket was facing aft and appears to be focused on something at the pedestal. He doesn't turn forward until the bow wave of MF slaps the smaller boat and breaks over it's bow. you can see the wave's spray in two of the photos. The sound and impact of the wave got his attention and caused him to look forward.

If the helmsman was paying attention, why didn't he say something to his friend before that instant in time? Like, "Hey, Joe, there's this big MF sailboat in front of us. What should I do?" His hands on the wheel didn't move from the 10 and 2 positions. He was probably watching yellow jacket do whatever he was doing at the pedestal.

A case of being asleep at the switch, IMHO.
Hud,

The first photo is taken when the SB is about 25 ft back from the impact - at 4 knots it would have taken less than 4 seconds for the whole sequence from start to impact - you can't have any idea what "yellowjacket" was doing before then, and the helmsman probably has the wheel hard over; what else could they do but clench their cheeks and hold on? If the guy in the yellow jacket was standing like that for the period preceding, then it's highly unlikely that they were tacking IMO.

Kevin
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Old 08-10-2008, 15:09   #43
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Hud,

what else could they do but clench their cheeks and hold on?

Kevin
They could have tried to stop. Dump sheets maybe? Wouldn't take long.
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Old 08-10-2008, 15:32   #44
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The photo showing Yellow Jacket turning his head forward coincident with the slap of MF's bow wave over SB's bow convinced me that he didn't have any idea what was in front of them until that instant in time.

Take the time to look at the whole photo sequence in hi-res.
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Old 08-10-2008, 15:34   #45
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HUD,

I just don't know how to take....that big MF boat....was that....big MFn boat?
I2F, you've got a naughty mind...
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