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Old 24-07-2012, 17:29   #121
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

Are there a couple of photos of this dilema somewhere that I missed? What is all the conjecture about? Anyway, my good friend Archimedes told me "Just give me a big enough lever and I can move the earth". I believe him. Now down to the basics. Just because a person has a boat, it does not mean he should have a boat. Boats just don't float and exist; they are truly an endeavour. Nature has a way of sorting things out. Sorry old timer...BTW, Thank goodness this sailor was not driven ashore on a foreign beach. In most places in our kindly world, the boat would be no more. I watched many good boats being burned on the beach at Cabo San Lucas just as Bernard Moitessier's, Joashua was quickly refloated and saved.
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Old 24-07-2012, 17:29   #122
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
Did she have a 7' keel with 4' of it in the sand?
No, but she was actually on the beach with no water to float in. Kedging actually works. It's been done since keels were invented. No, you can't just pry the keel free, but kedging accompanied by digging on the opposite side will. I promise.

The rigging on a boat that size should handle no less than 5000lbs. The keel a much greater amount. The fact that sand fills back in the hole is a good thing in this instance. It means the sand is not compacted. The fact that the boat is not sinking any deeper means it is sitting on solid ground, and the 4 feet it's buried in is soft sand. (and yes, I have experience digging in underwater sand, and mud, and clay, and everything else)

We're talking about maybe a 15 foot length trench. How fast can 15 people (attempt to) dig 4 feet deep? It's a dig, pull, dig, pull, dig, pull, type of situation, but it will work.

close the hatches, it's a boat. It won't sink with a little water ingress from being on it's side. Once the keel is broke free from the sand, keep it on it's side, deploy a few more anchors and use the winches to drag it into deeper water.

This is not rocket science, it's not "miracle thinking", and it doesn't take an engineering degree, nor Mother Theresa to accomplish. Just a bit of manpower and a many hours of hard work.

How much is that gonna cost?
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Old 24-07-2012, 17:30   #123
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
rognvald, you know the problem. Folks like to throw money and prove they care. But somehow, they're not so good at looking for underlying probelms and long-term solutions.

The problems here are nothing to do with a grounding, that's an effect not a cause. The causes are whatever is keeping the owner broke. He may have issues, he may need skills, that's a job for a society that has social services and assistance, not a random collection of uninformed guys on the internet.

This is like feeding the orphans in Africa. That might help, but adopting them back to the US and giving them a whole different set of neuroses would give them a way better chance of what some call success. Or not, there's always the law of unintended consequences.

He's an old man on disability, and there's no reason to think he hasn't contributed to his financial distress as he sold a home not all that long ago and got the boat for free. Maybe the money was spent on something like medical bills, I don't know, but there's no reason to assume that he either is or is not a victim of society's problems.
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Old 24-07-2012, 17:31   #124
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

I do not know you, but thats the kind of comment i would expect from an ignorant Bully.
Your part of a community whether you like it or not, and i would help you in your time of need no matter what flag you where flying.
Chill out Dude!!!!!!

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A little off topic but as per the previous post,,,,, I have worked in private yachting over 10 years. Lots of Aussies, new zealanders, south africans like to tell us what the United States does wrong. My response is if you do not like it GO HOME, nobody asked you to come here. Funny, they all stay to work on the yachts,, go figure.
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Old 24-07-2012, 17:33   #125
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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Originally Posted by Surveyor View Post
According to a friend of mine in St Pete who has gone by and took a look, the boat only needs to move about 20 to 25 feet. With a 7 foot draft it might as well be a mile. I feel bad for the guy.

That's the situation in a nutshell except that it needs to go a lot more than 20 - 25 feet. The only reason he got that far ashore is because of the extreme storm tide plus the size of the waves. If you waded 25' from that boat you'd have water up to your waist at low tide. It's a shallow beach, unfortunately.

And as I said before, bring in another storm and his boat becomes a serious hazard to other property.
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Old 24-07-2012, 17:34   #126
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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Originally Posted by susanna reiter View Post
I can not for the life of me understand why someone has not gotten this guy afloat....it makes no sense at all that no one has by now. What the heck !!!


I suggest you come to Gulfport and talk to the many people who have helped try.
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Old 24-07-2012, 17:37   #127
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

Some interesting additional info on the subject...


Stuck in the sand on Gulfport Beach, his life at sea slides toward an unhappy end - Tampa Bay Times

At the end of the article, you can click on "comments". There are quite a few, including the one below:


The article of Wednesday, July 18, 2012 by Lane Degregory, chronicling John, 'Cap'n Jay', Burki's plight is unfortunately full of untruths, distortions & Cap'n Jay's own delusional beliefs. I have known Cap for over a year now, & in the beginning was taken in by his seemingly sad story & apparently needy situation. Without going into detail, I & many others here in & around Gulfport have gone out of our way to help him with both physical & monetary support. Occasionally the monetary support has been repaid, either completely or at least partially; many times it has not. He can be very charming & upon 1st hearing, his stories of bad luck, harassment by officials, unfair treatment at the hands of both civil & government organizations constitute the picture of an individual leading an undeservedly miserable existence.
However, after hearing the same excuses over & again for varying trials & tribulations, after hearing him state that he hasn't the money to pay for gas for his boat, cigarettes, or even dog-food for the grown American Bulldog that he keeps sequestered on his boat & last year only brought ashore twice, it's a bit disheartening to watch him eat & pay for a steak dinner at his favorite watering hole, a restaurant across from Gulfport Beach, & afterward to bum cigarettes & wine off of the surrounding customers. And that is but one example of myriad discrepancies in his stories & his life. He is considered by many about town to fall into one or more of the following categories, joker, buffoon, charlatan, liar, beggar, psychopath, befuddled clown, fool and other less than savory descriptions. In the support of fairness, it must be said that he also has his supporters who consider him to be unfortunate, likable, a Gulfport institution & worthy of benefit of the doubt. These individuals tend to be those who have either just recently met him & have not yet been taken advantage of by him, or those who would continue to feed the same stray dog that bites them every time they give it a handout. But many of us are simply tired of his delusions, his using of people around him, his habit of running unassuming tourists out of Gulfport establishments with his outrageous behavior, & etc.
I have to believe that the article about him was written from material recounted totally by Cap'n Jay himself. The inaccuracies in it are so rampant as to render it impossible to correct them all in anything short of novella-length fashion. Consequently, I shall name but a few of them starting at the beginning of the article. Firstly, Cap'n Jay didn't decide to head for open water for safety's sake at the onset of Debby's high winds. According to Cap'n Jay, who told me the story himself, the anchor ropes which had held his boat in place for approximately 2 years, just a couple hundred yards off the beach in Gulfport broke free & the boat was set adrift. What happened next, also told to me by Cap'n Jay was that the boat washed ashore in Gulfport, at which time I believe it was the Coast Guard that he said towed him across the inter-coastal & tied him up to a bridge support along the Pinellas Bayway. Subsequently the boat broke free again & drifted back across to it's current location off Gulfport Beach. Next, the reason his engine didn't work was because it had been rusted into a mass of junk since the boat was sunk, prior to his acquisition of it. Also, the reason he couldn't raise the sail had nothing whatsoever to do with the wind's severity. His mast won't hold a sail because it had been snapped near half way through in a previous storm & has never been repaired. The preceding discrepancies (all within the 1st paragraph) are but three of at least eleven untruths I counted in the article, & there may presumably be more of which I am unaware.
While I am sure Ms Degregory was not aware of these ­"misstate­ments", it is unfortunate she didn't attempt a more balanced investigation of the truths in this matter before publication. Also, in reference to some comments made earlier to this article, no, Cap'n Jay did not possess a working toilet on his boat for over a year at least while it was anchored here. And yes, I have been aboard his boat...once for a few minutes & never again will I return. A dog (his dog) should not be allowed to live under the conditions I witnessed on that vessel, much less a human being.
Since this article's printing, many uninformed people have decided to come to Cap'n Jay's aid, & now Gulfport residents, along with it's visitors are confronted with the real possibility that an unwelcome situation that looked about to be solved shall once again continue for no one knows how long.
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Old 24-07-2012, 17:37   #128
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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Originally Posted by callmecrazy View Post
The boat most likely doesn't have keel bolts.

What's funny to me is the boat isn't on the beach. It's out in the water. It's no different than being permanently anchored there, just a little closer to shore and he can't move it. Nobody was complaining, or charging a fee, a week ago when we has 50 yards further out...

No, it's not just "out in the water. It's extremely close to the beach's waterline. If it floated free in another bad storm (wouldn't have to be a tropical event) it would be a hazard to the local pier and other boats with better maintained anchorages. It's a serious problem.

50 yards out he wasn't blocking the beach or an immediate risk to other boaters in a storm. But there were complaints ... since he couldn't move his boat, what was he doing with his waste???
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Old 24-07-2012, 17:40   #129
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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Originally Posted by callmecrazy View Post
I think the only ones beating a dead horse are those trying to convince everyone else there's no solution to this problem other than giving up.

Same old story around here...

The boat is sitting in 3 feet of water 20 yards off the beach. Removing the keel is certainly a reasonable option, if its not encapsulated.
Putting an anchor on the halyard and using manpower to dig out the keel is also very reasonable. The boat isn't just going to start breaking up into pieces like some would have us believe.

The boat is not taking on water an there's no indication that it's sustained any major damage. It's just a keel stuck in the sand. It's not a give up and go home type of situation.

Sling mud all you want. The Man's lack of income and the general appearance of the boat are non-issues. Even the fact that it was his own fault for not updating the anchor line is completely irrelevant IMO.

It is NOT 20 yards off the beach. Where does this stuff come from???

You can walk right up and touch the thing ten feet from the beach water line.
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Old 24-07-2012, 17:42   #130
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
keel is irrelevant. boat wont float sans keel. no one is doing anything, obviously, as he is still there , to our best knowledge.
the most practical solution is dredge activity--dont know fees involved.



Multiple things have been tried by multiple groups of people!!!

It just hasn't WORKED. That's your "best knowledge," from a local resident. I was out of town while these efforts went on but personally know the people who organized them.

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Old 24-07-2012, 17:43   #131
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
No, it's not just "out in the water. It's extremely close to the beach's waterline. If it floated free in another bad storm (wouldn't have to be a tropical event) it would be a hazard to the local pier and other boats with better maintained anchorages. It's a serious problem.

50 yards out he wasn't blocking the beach or an immediate risk to other boaters in a storm. But there were complaints ... since he couldn't move his boat, what was he doing with his waste???
What he was doing with his waste is not the issue here.

The issue is that the city is charging him $100 a day until he gets the boat free. Those who are saying the city has been helpful are just crazy. There's a commercial fishing boat sitting 20 yards off a very similarly small beach in Biloxi Missippie right now that's been there since Hurricane Katrina. You think they're being charged by the day?

Remember that nutjob that wrecked on the beach in Norfolk during hurricane Irene last year? He was a complete menace to society, yet the city was not charging him by the day.

This would not be an emergency if it wasn't for this fee being assessed. Yes, if another storm came it could get worse, or it could get better (big tide, kedges set????), but nobody was charging by the day for having a shotty anchor rode in the first place, where they?
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Old 24-07-2012, 17:44   #132
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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Originally Posted by forsailbyowner View Post
Ive stayed at the gulfport achorage and know capn jay. He had another boat in the anchorage that he sold. He was slowly fixing the boat up and had recently purchased a 4.108 for it. Theres a pontoon boat there that runs across the bows of the boats in the achorage and has cut more than one anchor rode. mine included.

Oh yes. I know someone who intends to put out chain just below the waterline and fix that boater's wagon ...
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Old 24-07-2012, 17:44   #133
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

Quote:
Originally Posted by micah719 View Post
Sorry I can't come help....if there is a fund for the guy, post it and I'll contribute.

My internet has maxed the download limit yet again and is throttled, else I'd ferret out what info there is on the www about the boat, and what the latest is. Next month, downloads reset, I'll give that a go.
Grounded in Gulfport by Jim Thompson - GoFundMe
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Old 24-07-2012, 17:46   #134
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chartnavigator View Post
Try all these things especially the inflatable dingy either side of the keel idea. When there is sufficient water give her full astern for as long as your engine can take it, to try to blow as much silt away from the keel as you can. Tie some heavy weights to the boom, (wet sandbags etc., very cheap) and swing the boom to port and starboard while going full astern and being lifted by the rubber dinghies. Or, tie another rubber dinghy to the boom on one side, fill it with water then hoist and release it to heel and rock the yacht while she is lifting.

I agree though. Shame you live in the USA. In Aussie or the UK you would have been out of there by now. America it seems does not have 'society', social is a dirty word, and 'socialists' are the enemy. America seems just to be comprised of a lot of self sufficient individuals all out to make a buck.
EXCUSE ME?

Now you damn all of the USA based on your UNFOUNDED and INACCURATE assumptions? You have no idea how many good people have tried to help this man.
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Old 24-07-2012, 17:50   #135
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

Quote:
Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
Shame you live in the USA. In Aussie or the UK you would have been out of there by now. America it seems does not have 'society', social is a dirty word, and 'socialists' are the enemy. America seems just to be comprised of a lot of self sufficient individuals all out to make a buck.--Chartnavigator

To Chartnavigator,
This forum clearly states no personal attacks. I take offense to your attack and prejudicial statements unfairly criticizing the USA for the inaction of a few individuals on this site and an unknown number of others who are aware of this man's plight but have done nothing. This discussion has been fully vetted on both sides of the issue and needn't be rehashed. I have clearly stated my opinions and although I feel sympathy for the man, I believe he, nonetheless, is responsible for his life, his circumstances and his decisions. The others who have expressed the need to help but have done nothing certainly deserve your criticism but . . . not the USA. In regards to your comment that Americans believe that "socialists are the enemy," I would respond that is quite untrue since the majority of Americans in our last election elected a clearly Socialist president who has more in common with European political ideals than the core values of our unique American capitalist democracy. There is no country anywhere that has given more to the needy in the world than the U.S. and many times to our own detriment. Keep your politics to yourself and don't tarnish the fine reputation of the English and Australian people by pretending to be their spokesman.

Speaking of assumptions, please tell us which people here who live in the area have done nothing. I'm sure we would all like to hear the name of those scoundrels. I am assuming (it is an assumption, but at least an acknowledge one) that no excuse or reason will be good enough.
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