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Old 24-07-2012, 05:43   #76
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

SunDevil wrote "And charging him a fee per day is just sad and kicking him when he is down." ==> The city administration knows that they will never collect from this guy. What they are doing is establishing a legal basis for removing the boat at some future time. According to the article, the boat does not belong to him anyway - someone else owns it and "asked him to move aboard". Clearly, he needs to find another boat to 'move aboard' - there are likely many available. One wonders how he is pumping out his head or holding tank in such a situation that close to a public beach.

Perhaps instead of trying to dig, a couple of large high pressure pumps can be obtained and the outlets directed along the keel - down at a 45* angle or so. At a spring high tide, run the pumps from a couple of gensets on deck and use the water pressure to dig out the keel and cut a channel into deeper water. Since the boat isn't self powered, use a large anchor and a power winch to drag the boat slowly out while the water jets do their job. Positioned properly, the jets could also contribute to the force moving the boat into deeper water.

The stuck keel is the problem. It seems like one could drill out the keel bolts from the inside at low tide, plug the resulting holes, and then tow the hull out of the shallows at a high spring tide when the hull might float. I know that monohullers are attached to their keels, but a beached catamaran would not be having this difficulty. Removing the keel from the sand at a spring low tide would then be much easier without the hull in the way.
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Old 24-07-2012, 06:14   #77
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

The boat most likely doesn't have keel bolts.

What's funny to me is the boat isn't on the beach. It's out in the water. It's no different than being permanently anchored there, just a little closer to shore and he can't move it. Nobody was complaining, or charging a fee, a week ago when we has 50 yards further out...
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Old 24-07-2012, 11:10   #78
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

We've obviously reached the point where we are beating a dead horse.

There are those who want to believe that there is some cheap and easy way to get this boat off the beach, and think that someone (though, apparently not THEM!) should take care of it for this guy. Then there are those (dare I say, who have actually SEEN what the situation is?) who believe that it is going to be neither easy nor cheap to get this boat off the beach, and that in the end the best thing for Jay to do is to salvage what he can and move on with his life. (I'm deliberately ignoring the silly suggestion that, just because there happens to be a bit of water all the way around the boat, it is not really "on the beach.")

Clearly, neither side is going to convince the other. Therefore, for myself at least, I'm through with this thread. For those who wish to continue...
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Old 24-07-2012, 11:29   #79
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

"The boat most likely doesn't have keel bolts."
When you hear hoofbetas, think horses, not zebras.

While the make appears unspecified, if this is any kind of conventional boat "built for bluewater cruising" then it also has a conventional bolted-on keel. Encapsulated keels are unusual on large boats (P424 being one exception) and rare again on bluewater boats. So what makes you think he has a zebra?

Apparently Mr. Burki traded a home lot for the boat, and lost an SO/wife along the way:
[Myspace]
May 7, 2006
Retired and ready to sail

Current mood:anxious
Hi,
Obviously I'm Jay. I have property outside of Arcadia, Florida which I am trying to trade for a sail boat. If you know of someone that may come to my aid please let me know.
While my SO and I await the day we meet the challenge of the sea, we are eager to meet couples who sail and cruise the seven and seas and have stories and insights to share.
Sincerely,
Jay & Sandra"
[The Sailing Forums]
"Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 11:37 am
Subject: SW Fla Homestead trade for bluewater sailboatRetired Vet and spouse would like to trade property and 2X2 MH on 1 acre an in an ever escalating market (market value $74.5) for bluewater sailboat NO REASONABLE OFFER REFUSED. 1 863 494-3151 anytime ..."

And perhaps wisely or fortunately, didn't get too far offshore.
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Old 24-07-2012, 12:12   #80
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I think the only ones beating a dead horse are those trying to convince everyone else there's no solution to this problem other than giving up.

Same old story around here...

The boat is sitting in 3 feet of water 20 yards off the beach. Removing the keel is certainly a reasonable option, if its not encapsulated.
Putting an anchor on the halyard and using manpower to dig out the keel is also very reasonable. The boat isn't just going to start breaking up into pieces like some would have us believe.

The boat is not taking on water an there's no indication that it's sustained any major damage. It's just a keel stuck in the sand. It's not a give up and go home type of situation.

Sling mud all you want. The Man's lack of income and the general appearance of the boat are non-issues. Even the fact that it was his own fault for not updating the anchor line is completely irrelevant IMO.
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Old 24-07-2012, 12:23   #81
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

Is there an update on the poor guy's floating home? The pitiful tidal range makes it very difficult to nut out a solution that won't break the boat/bank. By now, probably more realistic to write it off, strip it for salvage and buy/build a replacement.

Quote:
rognvald:
Perhaps the first stanza of W.B. Yeats poem "The Second Coming" says it best:
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the center cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Interesting poem, will look it up, thanks very much. You might like to look at The Book of Micah Ch 7 verses 1-9 (Old Testament). Verse 19 is more comforting though. Ok, threadjack over, returning to regular programming....
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Old 24-07-2012, 12:46   #82
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

crazy?
"The boat isn't just going to start breaking up into pieces like some would have us believe." No one said the boat would break up that way. Go back and read it again. What I said was that trying to pull the boat out--without doing any digging--would break the keel off, or break something else. Typically the attachment points or hawsers. It is in fact normal to expect tow lines to snap under strain, and to expect them to come flying back to the attachment points like angry meat cleavers. People routinely get hurt by that.

Now, IF you can dig out both sides of the keel, and IF the sand doesn't come rushing back in, sure, you can dig the keel out. But do some fast math on the diameter of the hull versus a seven-foot-long lever arm attached on the bottom of it. You're going to have to haul that boat way over, probably putting the rail underwater, and instead of dragging it out...the odds are pretty good you'll flood it.

That's not a certainty, but without dimensions? A good possibility. And if you think there's an inexpensive or affordable way to excavate that far down in sand, and keep it from filling back in...Sure, first you drive in a cofferdam to keep the rest of the sand form coming in. Ooops, there goes the budget.

Or maybe you missed the recent news about some poor kid in NJ who got buried in his beach excavation? There's a number of those every year as well. Digging in sand, underwater, is not as easy as digging a hole in your garden. And you'll need a wide hole to let something that long slip up and out without the risk of snapping the keel bolts or breaking the hull laminates around them.

"The Man's lack of income and ...are non-issues."
On the contrary, his income is everything here. Refloating the boat is, as I've said before, SIMPLE. There are many ways to do it. But they will all cost money, and that's the ONLY problem here. He's got no money, and he's gotten himself into a situation that may be impossible to solve without it.

If he had had one adequate anchor--and apparently he had 4 adequate anchors--and one adequate anchor rode--apparently all four of his snapped--he wouldn't be in this fix. So if oney means nothing and compassion is all, why haven't you stepped forward to adopt his cause and get him out of his hole?

You haven't contracted any of the local salvors to examine the problem? Gone looking for air bags on eBay?

Miraculous thinking won't help him. Do a Mother Teresa here, sell all your worldly goods and step up to help save one soul, if you think that's possible.
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Old 24-07-2012, 12:57   #83
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

Is the keel detachable? This would qualify as an emergency, so ditching the keel might be the only option....then seal the bolt-holes and all openings, empty the boat of anything and everything that can be gotten off, sink 44gal drums alongside, lash them on, pump them dry...time it with whatever tide is there, and kedge/tow off into deeper water. Contact some sea-scout groups and hit them with the challenge.....they get experience and kudos, and the poor guy gets his home back. Better than nothing. I hear it's getting crowded under bridges over there now.....
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Old 24-07-2012, 13:24   #84
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

Pump lots of water under the side leaning toward where you want it to end up.


Pull and pump, pull and pump... Pumping large amounts of water into the sand turns it into soup...
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Old 24-07-2012, 14:03   #85
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

There is a lot more speculation about this guy then there are facts. We do not know if his boat has a detatcable keel. We do not know what kind of boat he has. We don't realy even know if he owns the boat from what I have seen. Does anyone know of someone that has more facts? My personal believe from past experiences is that this boat will more than likely have to be demolished to be removed from the sand if it does not have a removeable keel. I am not saying it could not be removed but the cost to remove it would be much greater than the value of this boat. I own a power boat that I would bring to Tampa area to pull him away if someone knew if the keel could be removed while in this situation. Anyone out there know how to remove the keel and willing to step up and help remove it? I would help with that part of the operation also but I do not have the experience or knowlage to do it.
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Old 24-07-2012, 14:12   #86
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

keel is irrelevant. boat wont float sans keel. no one is doing anything, obviously, as he is still there , to our best knowledge.
the most practical solution is dredge activity--dont know fees involved.
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Old 24-07-2012, 14:19   #87
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

Ive stayed at the gulfport achorage and know capn jay. He had another boat in the anchorage that he sold. He was slowly fixing the boat up and had recently purchased a 4.108 for it. Theres a pontoon boat there that runs across the bows of the boats in the achorage and has cut more than one anchor rode. mine included.
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Old 24-07-2012, 14:45   #88
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

Yes dredging would do it, but the cost would be astonomical, not to mention what EPA aspects would have to be involved, a man that had insurance was charged $300,000 dollars for a grounding not that much differnt then this one by the EPA. I do not know if this applies here but it could. To hire a dredge to come out and get this boat out IMHO is unrealistic.
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Old 24-07-2012, 14:55   #89
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

Sorry I can't come help....if there is a fund for the guy, post it and I'll contribute.

My internet has maxed the download limit yet again and is throttled, else I'd ferret out what info there is on the www about the boat, and what the latest is. Next month, downloads reset, I'll give that a go.
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Old 24-07-2012, 16:22   #90
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

Quote:
Originally Posted by capngeo View Post
sad part is they will probably fine him for disturbing the sand if he does get off!

No, they won't. No point making stuff up. In fact the local authorities, while they can't let the boat stay, sincerely hope he can get off and are trying to help him find a solution. He's well-known in the area for helping other boaters and this is not lost on the local officials.
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