Visit our Popular Forums

**zeehag** · 22-07-2012, 09:50

we dont have the power to judge others as to their living arrangements nor of what constitutes cruising---do we??? does not judge not lest thee be judged make any sense to anyone---
does anyone know what boat looked like before grounding--storms do a LOT of damage.
i got my boat in which i cruise with a blown engine--had been bad for over 4 yrs when i picked her up -- her wood looked sad and she had a bad life until we saved her. because his income is so low-- how can we be certain he wasnt doing that which he could to restore her.
who is living in fla and merely judging??
why cant someone go help this soul...there but for fortune go you and i---remember that--is truth.

SunDevil · 22-07-2012, 15:16

What good are marina's paying property taxes, cities collecting mooring fees, coast guard and army corp taking in tax money if they won't help a sailboat in trouble caused by nature?

And charging him a fee per day is just sad and kicking him when he is down.

I would like to know from the other people here who anchor out. If this had been a catamaran with a 1.5ft draft that was just anchored out here (or where ever along the coast of a city or park), whould the city or sheriff come along and demand you pay $93/day? Are there certain places in the US coastal waters where you can't anchor? (except for military and high water traffic areas?)

denverd0n · 23-07-2012, 05:55

They're not charging him 93$ a day to anchor there. They are charging him 93$ a day because it has washed up on shore. In fact, so long as he was anchored just off the beach (which is where he was), there was no charge. If I drove my car onto a public beach and left it there I would not be surprised to be charged a parking fee. This is really no different from that.

I feel sorry for the guy. I really do. But I also understand that the city wants the boat moved, and they don't want to have to spend the taxpayers money to move it. I don't really think the city is being all that unreasonable (and I have no doubt that the city manager knows they're never going to get a penny from Capt. Jay anyway).

While the boat may not meet the strict definition of the word "derelict," nonetheless it has been a disaster waiting to happen for quite a long time. The ground tackle that I saw was barely adequate for a calm day in a protected bay. It is absolutely no surprise that it couldn't hold during TS Debby. What happened was inevitable, and if it hadn't happened during this storm then it would have happened during the next.

The boat needs to be scrapped and Capt. Jay needs to move on with his life.

captainKJ · 23-07-2012, 06:21

While the boat may not meet the strict definition of the word "derelict," nonetheless it has been a disaster waiting to happen for quite a long time. The ground tackle that I saw was barely adequate for a calm day in a protected bay. It is absolutely no surprise that it couldn't hold during TS Debby. What happened was inevitable, and if it hadn't happened during this storm then it would have happened during the next.

I have sen this ll to often. People buy a boat and dont have the proper ground tackle. On my 27 foot cat, only 3000 pounds if that I have a 22 pound anchor on it, 50 feet of chain, 200 feet of rope if needed. Once that was dug in nothing moved. was in 50 knots plus 70 gusts and never moved. I like sleeping at night.

Gene :^) · 23-07-2012, 06:38

Where did you guys see his ground tackle? The story said all 4 of his anchors were lost and still in the bottom somewhere.

Also, the story says he is not up on the beach, he is still in 3 feet of water but i think he is being fined because the story said he is inside the swimming buoys.

--------

Gene :^)
Http://www.Strathbelle.com/

captainKJ · 23-07-2012, 06:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gene :^)

Where did you guys see his ground tackle? The story said all 4 of his anchors were lost and still in the bottom somewhere.

Also, the story says he is not up on the beach, he is still in 3 feet of water but i think he is being fined because the story said he is inside the swimming buoys.

--------

Gene :^)
Http://www.Strathbelle.com/

I never saw his ground tackle but was going by what I read, maybe my bad but I have seen many boats without the proper anchors and owners wonder why they drag. I will be in tampa on thursday, will take a look then and see if I can do anything

rognvald · 23-07-2012, 07:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by denverd0n

I've seen the boat. I've met Capt. Jay. One of the nicest guys you could ever meet, but the boat really is a derelict. No, he is not a "cruiser." I'm not sure the boat would be safe to take out into the open waters of Tampa Bay, let alone anywhere else.

It is going to take way more than this boat is worth to refloat it. That is a simple and inescapable fact. I wish him luck, but honestly, at this point there is no practical way to get him back living aboard this particular boat. The only practical thing to do at this point is salvage whatever can be salvaged, and scrap the rest.

Despite all the semantic quibbling from the esteemed members of the "Bleeding Heart" society, DenverdOn's comments (a person who knows the boat and the man) is the voice of Reason in a sea of confused compassion(sorry for the reaching nautical metaphor). As I and others have voiced, where are all these compassionate souls in organzing and implementing the recovery? Most are too busy, too far away, or there's a logistical problem in sending money since no recovery fund has been established. But, I can assure you one thing--after this man's plight has been long forgotten there will be other celebrated causes that the true of heart, the honest of soul, the standard bearers of compassion and integrity will give their support to help the needy, the downtrodden and those hard on their luck. But, there's only one problem: they never devote their time or their money. They never save the world. Now, is that how you define compasssion?

**hellosailor** · 23-07-2012, 07:52

rognvald, you know the problem. Folks like to throw money and prove they care. But somehow, they're not so good at looking for underlying probelms and long-term solutions.

The problems here are nothing to do with a grounding, that's an effect not a cause. The causes are whatever is keeping the owner broke. He may have issues, he may need skills, that's a job for a society that has social services and assistance, not a random collection of uninformed guys on the internet.

This is like feeding the orphans in Africa. That might help, but adopting them back to the US and giving them a whole different set of neuroses would give them a way better chance of what some call success. Or not, there's always the law of unintended consequences.

**zeehag** · 23-07-2012, 08:15

earlier was stated he is ssi recipient--meaning he hasnt a chance in hell of finding another home. not on land nor on water. this boat is his home.
i do not advocate sending money but i think someone nearby with the ability could possibly assist in the removal of his home. do we really NEED to ADD to the homeless count??? are folks here that heartless?? isnt money to be sent-is assistance needed

Surveyor · 23-07-2012, 08:16

According to a friend of mine in St Pete who has gone by and took a look, the boat only needs to move about 20 to 25 feet. With a 7 foot draft it might as well be a mile. I feel bad for the guy.

denverd0n · 23-07-2012, 09:02

Quote:

Where did you guys see his ground tackle?

When I mentioned his ground tackle I was specifically referring to his anchor rode. But the word "rode" doesn't really seem appropriate. "Tattered string" would probably be more accurate. Or, at least, that's what it looked like to me. It was old, dirty, noticeably frayed (even from a fair distance), and my guess is that it was 1/4" line at most.

Then, too, listen to the first 30 seconds of that video if you want to know about his level of nautical understanding. He thinks that hurricanes usually blow through in 3 hours or so, and that it was really unusual for a tropical storm to last for 5 days (which, the rain lasted for 5 days, but the high winds only lasted for 2-3 days).

I honestly don't wish the guy ill, and I'm sorry for the situation he is in, but the truth is that having seen the boat before Debby had her way with it, it is absolutely no surprise to me that this happened. The boat and the guy were just a disaster waiting to happen.

**hellosailor** · 23-07-2012, 11:41

zeehag, if he's on ssi or ssdi, sending him money may actually disquality him from some aid programs he may already be in. Law of unintended consequences.

**Rocketman** · 23-07-2012, 13:40

I believe that Capt. Jay is a nice guy that was only one step above a homeless man. Now he is homeless or will be shortly. Unfortunitly this issue of a boat on the beach will have to be delt with by someone at some time, probably a government organization at tax payers expenance. Capt. Jay would probably be beter off to remove anything from the boat that he feels is valuable and start looking for another floating shell of a boat to call home, then at least obtain some anchors and rode that will handle his boat for future storms that will come. With all this said, I feel compasion for this guy, but like the last guy stated, the Rules of unintended consequences do apply. By helping this guy with this old boat without helping him a lot further than simply getting his boat back to deeper water could set up another simular, possibly worse scenario.

**zeehag** · 23-07-2012, 15:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by hellosailor

zeehag, if he's on ssi or ssdi, sending him money may actually disquality him from some aid programs he may already be in. Law of unintended consequences.

where did i say send him money---he doesnt need dough, he needs help. is a difference--we have folks living in the area, and there are companies ho dig out trenches in sand and muck and could actually help get his boat into deeper water. would mean more to him than just throwing money at him to do it. he doesnt have the resources others may have....

susanna reiter · 23-07-2012, 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeehag

where did i say send him money---he doesnt need dough, he needs help. is a difference--we have folks living in the area, and there are companies ho dig out trenches in sand and muck and could actually help get his boat into deeper water. would mean more to him than just throwing money at him to do it. he doesnt have the resources others may have....

I can not for the life of me understand why someone has not gotten this guy afloat....it makes no sense at all that no one has by now. What the heck !!!