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Old 21-07-2012, 17:32   #46
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

Surround it with air bags and a simple 12 volt air pump,,turn it on,,and wait a horrendous amount of time, but she will pop out no problem. then keep her on her side and yard her out to deeper water..
Or rail against the city and get them to lift him out and charge him for it in installments ......
Or is that to much of an effort for a multi - billion dollar state????
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Old 21-07-2012, 17:50   #47
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

Yep. Very good video, and an instructive one too.

b.
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Old 21-07-2012, 17:59   #48
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"Somebody with a power boat (or two) can get this guy off."

Dude, he's got more than half of a seven foot deep keel down in the sand. Pulling the boat sideways is, again, just gonna break off the keel, or break something else.

By him a role of primer cord and blow off the last four feet of keel, and you'll do him a bigger favor.
While I do agree that high explosives are the solution to many of the world's problems, you underestimate the strength of an encapsulated full keel on a bluewater boat.......

The boat would not emerge unscathed, but doubtful the keel would suffer more than eroded bottom paint by kedging it out of the sand. Desperate times require desperate actions and some glass damage or a few lost cleats is a small price to pay to recover your home.
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Old 21-07-2012, 18:14   #49
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

If the boat is in as bad a condition as it looks then dragging it sideways will likely be worth the risk. and if she disintegrates then that is half the job done (that would need doing anyway). Might need bags inside her though. But I doubt if a standard power boat would have the low speed oomph needed, or the cleats!

Or drag her inshore (to the reach of a crane).

But given that money is an issue (and neither of the above an option?), personally I would part her out and then chainsaw her into chunks that would then haul ashore. possibly aided by gasoline, even if "accidently".
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Old 21-07-2012, 23:08   #50
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

Rognvald speaks harshly, but he speaks the truth. Even if Cap'n Jay was unstuck, then what ? Let's pretend we all rallied and got him out of the sand. We'd be HEROES ! ... for about 20 minutes. He still needs about $1000 worth of gear to keep it from happening again right away. How about two 100# danforth anchors and about two hundred feet of new 1 inch three strand. Perhaps a battery, some solar panels, and a bilge pump. Denverd0n has met the man, has seen the boat. Denverd0n has experience, can assess the local situation. His word is good with me. I love lost causes, but there is no end of this one. Even on a good boat with newish gear, you would be hard pressed to live for long on $800 per month. A year or two, possibly. Then the maintenance cost would catch up with you. This boat is played out. Needs everything you can think of. Perhaps Rognvald chose his words poorly, but he is absolutely right. Bad things happen in this world every day. But every day brings us a new day. Personally, I think this is probably a good thing. There is every possibility that the next place Cap'n Jay ends up at will be better for him. Safer than a boat in a storm. Possibly a shower? This is the end of that boat, but not Jay. The only reason this is a bad thing and not a simple change of venue, is if you insist on framing it up that way. Hey, if living on a boat is the issue, it probably would be easier to find him another boat. There's hundreds of boats abandoned it Florida.
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Old 21-07-2012, 23:57   #51
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

Apparently there's a three-foot tidal range in the Tampa Bay area. If that applies to Gulfport as well, then depending on how he's measuring the "three feet" of water he is stranded in, it might be possible to add enough floation and excavate enouhg to get the keel lifted by the tide, leaving only one foot in the sand.

IF that were the case, kedging and pulling it out sideways could work. But if he's got four feet of keel stuck in the sand even at high tide...I'd still think any attempt at kedging would just break the keel, or the hull.

We just don't have the information.

rover, primer cord tends to make a focused blast. Used for cutting down trees and severing pipes, also for laying around door frames as a way to remove doors. The collateral damage really isn't the same as just laying out blocks of plastique. Especially if you blanket over it.
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Old 22-07-2012, 00:28   #52
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

Ok the only way's to get it out is by 1) Floating it upward on a rising tide with lift bags.
2) Lifting it upwards by crane barge or excavator at low tide. 3) Aerating the sand by pumping air or water down by the keel as the tide rises sufficently.

The Excavator may be the cheapest option,

Demolition would cost more and bring with it all kinds of expense. The quickest would be by the same excavator at low tide.

The mans heart is going to be hurt whichever way it goes, sadly owning boats brings responsibilities and costs.
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Old 22-07-2012, 03:46   #53
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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Originally Posted by IslandHopper View Post
So rather than the "City" giving the poor bugger a hand in getting his boat (home) out and giving him a bill, they prefer to suck $93 a day out of him by doing nothing because he can't do it himself (100% profit ).......there is something seriously wrong with the society we have created for ourselves.....
Well said. How right you are!
He has no value, his sailing life is a meaningless waste of time and clearly he is nothing but a burden to the ant colony.
We here in the U.S. needn't look to the future for lost freedoms.
There will be no more of this living freely (and I don't mean money-wise) on the once robust "margins" of American society, working some little job so we can feed ourselves while doing what we love. Gathering up the "golden crumbs" as we used to call them. This used to be a wonderfully healthy aspect of our society that gave rise to all kinds of art and contributions the value of which cannot be measured in the "marketplace".
Those who have sacrificed their souls for great wealth cannot tolerate seeing people who are quite happy w/o it. That undermines the value of greed and the toll of getting more stuff than the other guy.
Best of luck to the skipper... if I weren't on another coast I'd be lending a hand.
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Old 22-07-2012, 08:05   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coops


Similar position, interesting result. Love the "love pat" from the excavator at the end.

Coops.
Wow, your man on that excavator was amazing.
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Old 22-07-2012, 08:59   #55
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

cpt kj seems to have reached a different thread with this answer he wrote:


"floating dock on each side,,,couple of straps underneath, when high tide comes it should be close to floating off if there is a 3 foot tide. Have done this before. 4 of us pushed a sailboat out this way but it took several tides to do it."

could be viable, if there are items could be used as floating docks, or if there are some to borrow from somewhere.....
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Old 22-07-2012, 09:00   #56
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandHopper View Post
So rather than the "City" giving the poor bugger a hand in getting his boat (home) out and giving him a bill, they prefer to suck $93 a day out of him by doing nothing because he can't do it himself (100% profit ).......there is something seriously wrong with the society we have created for ourselves.....
I'm not sure what the city would do, but I agree that they should do something to help if they are charging him. It might become the city's problem anyways...

Can he remove the keel? He might have to motor it someplace outside of the city then (or haul it out). He might be able to dig the keel out with enough people (at least a few feet) or an excavator. But moving that heavy thing around won't be easy. Would it fit on a tow truck? He could have them help winch it up to shore and drive it to the marina where it can be mated back together.
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Old 22-07-2012, 09:11   #57
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

Full keel boats usually do not have removable keels. It's part of the hull.
I still think careening it over and sliding it to deeper waters is the way to go.
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Old 22-07-2012, 09:54   #58
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

I remember when Donna Lange sailed her boat onto the beach in NC. The community rallied together, put their hands on the boat, and pushed the damn thing back into deep water.

I doubt if any of them even knew who she was. They didn't care how much, or how little money she had, or whether she had insurance or not. They didn't question the condition of the boat, or her life choices. Nobody thought twice about whether it was her home or not, or how she got on the beach in the first place. They just did what needed to be done because it was the right thing to do.

Kedging and dragging the boat out on her side, even if it's 1000 yards, is the way to go. It would only take a couple of borrowed anchors and a few extra hands, and maybe a few days of work.

I know there's still a few good people left in this country, but I pray I never have to ask for help from such a disgraceful community as this man has to deal with.

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Old 22-07-2012, 09:57   #59
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

so, who IS donna lange, other than an alumna of mine and momma's collegiate alma mater....
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Old 22-07-2012, 10:40   #60
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

Quote:
Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
This was certainly an unfortunate loss for this "cruising sailor." However, being a practical person I have a few questions that should be considered. 1.) By his own admission in the article, his boat was a "gift" with water that was waist deep in the cabin and he pumped her out, sealed the leaks and lived on her.

That “gift” was someone else’s way of getting rid of a problem/liability by finding someone that was (perhaps foolishly) willing to earn sweat equity—and a place to live relative inexpensively—by taking on the problem.

Quote:
Is this the definition of a "cruising sailboat?"

Your point is? Who is blessed with the wisdom to judge what constitutes another’s “cruising”?

Quote:
2.) From the picture in the video and the article (taking into consideration the storm), does this look like a seagoing boat or one that was tied to an anchor in a free anchorage that probably never moved from its mooring?

The yacht looks “dilapidated” and in need of maintenance—so do many boats that have returned from long cruises in rough/isolated country. How can one draw any conclusions about the use of a boat from a single photo?

Quote:
3.) By his own admission, the engine didn't work. Was this a consequence of the storm or a non-functional engine?

Who knows? My dock-mate has a lovely Jeneau 42 with a big 2009 era Yanmar that has been dysfunctional for upwards of a month to his and several different diesel mechanic’s frustration.

Quote:
4.) With no insurance and no funds, what would be the incentive for a towboat to assist this vessel with no prospect of being paid

Sometimes folks do “stuff” to help others out of the kindness of their hearts or for the “Goodwill” effect (“chips”). Why is it that if a land dweller suffers a catastrophe—particularly a “poor” land dweller—everyone rushes to their aid while a “sea dweller” suffering a not dissimilar catastrophe is merely a “public nuisance”? In some venues everyone is given aid regardless of whether they dwell on land or sea. In England, for example, the National Life Boat Institution” does so at no cost to those given aid.

Quote:
And finally, 5.) Should the taxpayers of Tampa [Gulfport?] be responsible for the cost of the salvage and, if so, why would anyone in a similar situation who know[s] this pay for insurance?


See my response above comparing land dwellers verses sea dwellers. Further, I don’t think one risks “moral hazard” here. Virtually none of the low income sea dwellers can afford insurance, or could obtain it if they could afford it. Yet—as a land dweller—I can buy $350,000 worth of insurance for our near river front home in a flood plane [ensuring that at some point there will be a damaging flood] for a total premium of only $365.00 per annum—$1.00 /day—regardless of the “land worthiness” of the building—courtesy of the US Government. Now that is a certain Moral Hazard as evidenced by the number of times ocean front/flood plane homes are destroyed and yet rebuild in the same location. Moreover, I needn’t really buy flood insurance at all as, whenever there is a “natural disaster” effecting land dwellers, the Government quickly swoops in, declares a “state of emergency” and funds billions of dollars of repairs/reconstruction with non-repayable “grants in aid”, to “land dwellers”, with and without Flood Insurance.

While I am not much a favor of a lot of the “sea dwellers” that inhabit certain areas in Florida, so long as they are not a public nuisance with alcohol or drug abuse or other anti-social behaviors—and in this case this fellow reportedly has none of such vices—who am I to judge/vilify? Many sea dwellers are so as an alternative to homelessness landside where they would be a much greater burden on society.

Quote:
I do not know the absolute specifics of this particular situation other than what has been written and recorded in this blog [FYI this is a “Forum” not a “blog”] but this certainly seems that his vessel qualifies as a "derelict" that was discussed in a previous discussion concerning Boot Key Harbor, Fl. and other similar anchorages.
Quote:
This, no doubt, is a tragedy for this man as he has lost his "home" and it most likely will be dismantled and removed at the taxpayers expense. Living on $800. per month, he certainly cannot afford to pay. But, where are the compassionate souls in Tampa that tell their friends from the comfort of their home computers that he must be helped? Oh, well. On to another blog [Forum?].
FYI, a vessel abandoned in open water by its crew without any hope or intention of returning is a “derelict” as is personal property abandoned or thrown away by the owner. So long as this man has not abandoned his “home”, it is not yet a derelict nor, for that matter, do he and his dog seem to be.

The primary risks to his “home” at this point are “public servants” that seem to be most concerned with removing an “eyesore”; or, the possibility that vandals will further trash/damage/destroy the boat in the owner’s absence as happened when Michael Calabrese’s grounded yacht was torched while his back was turned—or was in the local slammer for some of his stupid/self inflicted injuries/behaviors. Extracting the yacht would not be that difficult absent interference from local authorities including everyone from the local muni-government, to the Fla. DEP, to the Coast Guard, to the Corps of the Engineers, that all seem to have to have a finger in the broth. Absent these characters one could water-jet the keel to blast enough sand clear on the leeward side to allow her to be careened and dragged sideways with some added flotation for protection. Before beginning to mount such an effort, however, one would have to know that there will be no official interference but that isn’t going to happen.

The “rescue” demonstrated in the previously posted video could not have happened in the US. An operator wouldn’t dare taking equipment on a beach without a permit and it would have taken weeks, and soil bearing studies, and environmental impact reviews, to get permits to bring an excavator or crane onto a beach to say nothing of the actual excavation itself. Absent permits, the EPA would be all over everyone within a mile of such an effort to say nothing of the other public savant (er, ‘servant”) agencies.

N’any case, if someone local is willing to manage it, I for one am prepared to contribute something to a fund to help this guy. He is no less deserving than the 65 YO grandmother that was taunted by four teenagers and ended up receiving 3/4 ‘s million dollars from a sympathetic public in response—of course she was a land dweller.

FWIW…
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