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Old 21-07-2012, 08:25   #31
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
This was certainly an unfortunate loss for this "cruising sailor." However, being a practical person I have a few questions that should be considered. 1.)By his own admission in the article, his boat was a "gift" with water that was waist deep in the cabin and he pumped her out, sealed the leaks and lived on her. Is this the definition of a "cruising sailboat?" 2.)From the picture in the video and the article(taking into consideration the storm), does this look like a seagoing boat or one that was tied to an anchor in a free anchorage that probably never moved from its mooring? 3.)By his own admission, the engine didn't work. Was this a consequence of the storm or a non-functional engine? 4.)With no insurance and no funds, what would be the incentive for a towboat to assist this vessel with no prospect of being paid? And finally,5)Should the taxpayers of Tampa be responsible for the cost of the salvage and, if so,why would anyone in a similar situation who know this pay for insurance? I do not know the absolute specifics of this particular situation other than what has been written and recorded in this blog but this certainly seems that his vessel qualifies as a "derelict" that was discussed in a previous discussion concerning Boot Key Harbor, Fl. and other similar anchorages. This, no doubt, is a tragedy for this man as he has lost his "home" and it most likely will be dismantled and removed at the taxpayers expense. Living on $800. per month, he certainly cannot afford to pay. But, where are the compassionate souls in Tampa that tell their friends from the comfort of their home computers that he must be helped? Oh, well. On to another blog.
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Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
So, Mr. B.,
With all respect intended, your defintion of a "non derelict" boat is one that floats and has a human being living inside? I think some, including myself, would quarrel with that defintion.
The amount of compassion you demonstrate towards a fellow human is overwhelming!

Why don't you simply come out and say "The boat is a piece of ****, f#%k him!"
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Old 21-07-2012, 08:31   #32
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

ok...how many of you sailboat owners have had a boat become grounded in a storm???

boats grounded in storms look crappy. they been thru hell--so why do you denigrate this one without knowing he boat or the human owning it???
there is a mebbe 1-2 ft tidal range in fla in tampa bay. is negligible.
does someone in the area have access to a way of getting that boat unstuck so he doesnt become homeless????
remember, there is that problem also in the usa. do we HAVE to add to it by failing to assist someone in dire need????
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Old 21-07-2012, 08:41   #33
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

The only problem here is the usual one: Someone's broke.

The salvage job is routine, there are only so many ways to lift a boat four feet higher than it is sitting but they're all long documented. and the only question is "What's it gonna cost?"

A crane, a barge, a couple of hours with a skyhook...no cheap solutions to getting a boat raised up four feet. Dropping the keel would be cheap and easy. Use some airbags to keep the hull afloat and upright, then recover the keel in a much smaller operation. But of course, since he's broke and has no insurance, no marina will take the boat in while that work needs to be done. Still won't be "cheap".

All you folks who can spend $100-200 on fuel and driving...just send him the money, start a donation fund for him, that's what it is going to take. And once the recovery goes from twenty grand to fifty...yes, it might make sense to demolish and replace the boat.

Dollars and sense, that's all this is about.
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Old 21-07-2012, 10:00   #34
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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Originally Posted by DotDun View Post
The amount of compassion you demonstrate towards a fellow human is overwhelming!

Why don't you simply come out and say "The boat is a piece of ****, f#%k him!"
DotDun,
To say you know a person's humanity from a response in a sailing blog is quite unfair. This is not about humanity but a practical solution to a desperate man's plight. By his own admission he is broke and cannot pay for the vessel's recovery. If he cannot, then whom should pay? The taxpayers? Hello Sailor has an excellent response in a following response. I suggest you show your humanity by sending this unfortunate soul some money for the recovery. This would defintely be a step in the right direction. As for me, there are millions of lost and unfortunate souls in the world that need help, money and compassion. I cannot save them from their misery. I can and do, however, make a positive impact in the lives of my friends and family and to those people I demonstrate my compassion and caring by the way I live my life. Good luck and good sailing.
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Old 21-07-2012, 10:14   #35
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

Compassion has nothing to do with it. 1/4 million chinese were killed in their last major earthquake. Did you do anything to help them out?

Bangladesh routinely is devastated by floods. It is sometimes called "that uninhabitable swamp no one else wanted to live in". Have you offered to sponsor a Bangladeshi family to move to higher land and a proper farm?

So here's one guy, who was too broke to buy a proper anchor rode, and folks are what, supposed to spend twice the replacement value of his boat in order to refloat it? Those Chinese, Bangladeshis, and many million more people are in greater need right now. Where's your compassion for them?
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Old 21-07-2012, 10:22   #36
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

Lets see now, he sold his house so he must have some money. A 3-4 star hotel is about $93 a day and here he's got water a front view.

I'm assuming its a full keel from its looks, so it can be careened easily. The question is how far from floatable water is it?

Personally, I'd get/rent a couple huge anchors and set them out in the deep and start putting a strain on some hull straps towards the sea. Also if one puts a pipe on the end of portable fire pump and shove it down around the keel it'll loosen the sand allowing the keel to free up.

I really hope he's doing something besides just sitting there waiting for someone to get him out.
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Old 21-07-2012, 11:18   #37
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

I AM intrigued by the lack of response by posters from the Tampa Bay area, and I know there are a few from there on here.
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Old 21-07-2012, 11:31   #38
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

del, you're off your mark today.

"Lets see now, he sold his house so he must have some money....I'm assuming its a full keel from its looks, so it can be careened easily. "

Ah, no. Houses have been underwater, there's no guessing what one will bring, or what the boat might have cost. Or if someone's been playing the ponies or incurring some more worthy expenses in the last five years.

And you're right about the full keel, but the link mentions it is a SEVEN FOOT DRAFT with four feet of that now in the sand. Ain't no way you're going to careen that much keel out of the sand, I'd bet you'd break it off if you could pull hard enough to get it over.

Which comes back to the Skycrane. 25000# lift, and I'm told $5-10,000 per hour if you can find one available and if you're under 25000#. (Yes, they've been used to move stranded boats before.)

Unless they can float a barge crane in. Easy enough to get an estimate on that, but it still won't be lunch money.
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Old 21-07-2012, 11:55   #39
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Compassion has nothing to do with it. 1/4 million chinese were killed in their last major earthquake. Did you do anything to help them out?

Bangladesh routinely is devastated by floods. It is sometimes called "that uninhabitable swamp no one else wanted to live in". Have you offered to sponsor a Bangladeshi family to move to higher land and a proper farm?

So here's one guy, who was too broke to buy a proper anchor rode, and folks are what, supposed to spend twice the replacement value of his boat in order to refloat it? Those Chinese, Bangladeshis, and many million more people are in greater need right now. Where's your compassion for them?
Where is the connection between compassion and money?

Quote:
Dictionary:compassion |kəmˈpaSHən| noun
sympathetic pity and concern for the sufferings or misfortunes of others

Thesaurus:compassion noun
pity, sympathy, empathy, fellow feeling, care, concern, solicitude, sensitivity, warmth, love, tenderness, mercy, leniency, tolerance, kindness, humanity, charity. ANTONYMS indifference, cruelty.

Wikipedia:Compassion is the virtue of empathy for the suffering of others. It is regarded as a fundamental part of human love, and a cornerstone of greater social interconnection and humanism —foundational to the highest principles in philosophy, society, and personhood.
Watching/reading the story, adding one's own embellishments, declaring in public the vessel is/was derelict (from 1000 miles away) and stating anyone thinking of lending a helping hand to the man in the time of need certainly won't get paid is not the definition of compassion.

The man is pleading for help, make up your mind if you want to help or not, that's your business, but don't disparage the man and his situation in a public forum.

Disparaging embellishments that show lack of compassion:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
This was certainly an unfortunate loss for this "cruising sailor." However, being a practical person I have a few questions that should be considered. 1.)By his own admission in the article, his boat was a "gift" with water that was waist deep in the cabin and he pumped her out, sealed the leaks and lived on her. Is this the definition of a "cruising sailboat?" 2.)From the picture in the video and the article(taking into consideration the storm), does this look like a seagoing boat or one that was tied to an anchor in a free anchorage that probably never moved from its mooring? 3.)By his own admission, the engine didn't work. Was this a consequence of the storm or a non-functional engine? 4.)With no insurance and no funds, what would be the incentive for a towboat to assist this vessel with no prospect of being paid? And finally,5)Should the taxpayers of Tampa be responsible for the cost of the salvage and, if so,why would anyone in a similar situation who know this pay for insurance? I do not know the absolute specifics of this particular situation other than what has been written and recorded in this blog but this certainly seems that his vessel qualifies as a "derelict" that was discussed in a previous discussion concerning Boot Key Harbor, Fl. and other similar anchorages. This, no doubt, is a tragedy for this man as he has lost his "home" and it most likely will be dismantled and removed at the taxpayers expense. Living on $800. per month, he certainly cannot afford to pay. But, where are the compassionate souls in Tampa that tell their friends from the comfort of their home computers that he must be helped? Oh, well. On to another blog.
All IMO, of course!
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Old 21-07-2012, 14:10   #40
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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I really hope he's doing something besides just sitting there waiting for someone to get him out.
Me too.
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Old 21-07-2012, 14:21   #41
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

I've seen the boat. I've met Capt. Jay. One of the nicest guys you could ever meet, but the boat really is a derelict. No, he is not a "cruiser." I'm not sure the boat would be safe to take out into the open waters of Tampa Bay, let alone anywhere else.

It is going to take way more than this boat is worth to refloat it. That is a simple and inescapable fact. I wish him luck, but honestly, at this point there is no practical way to get him back living aboard this particular boat. The only practical thing to do at this point is salvage whatever can be salvaged, and scrap the rest.
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Old 21-07-2012, 14:24   #42
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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I AM intrigued by the lack of response by posters from the Tampa Bay area, and I know there are a few from there on here.

I don't know how to multi-quote.

I am in West Central FL.

Here is my excuse.

I am on call. I cannot be more than 30 min. radius from a point in N Tampa area. It is the way my business is. The hole I dug for myself. If I go out to eat (or anywhere else) with my wife (or family or anyone else) we take two cars. I might not be there for the whole meal. My business, my choice of life.

It is one of the reasons I am "back to just the Jon boat". I thought I could "take" more time for me (and my family). Wrong. (Maybe I am just greedy?).

That is my excuse.

I suppose I did not need to take the comment personally but I guess I did.

I also question some stuff like rognvald did.

Imagine me saying "Dear, I am going to the coast to see about getting this guys boat unstuck."
"Really"
"Yea. Not sure how long I'll be"
"Well. It's not like you haven't done stuff like this before. But now I have a relapse and can't even drive. You go on though."
"OK honey, see ya" "kiss kiss"

Sorry.
It will have to be a little donation or "good luck dude, I feel for ya".
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Old 21-07-2012, 14:25   #43
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

In reply to DotDun's previous emotional and unfair remarks, I have two final comments: 1.) I added no personal embellishments concerning the plight of this person but used the news article,the video and the obvious facts of this situation as my information source. There is nothing further added than what was previously written or said. The condition of this man's boat was clearly stated by him in his narrative, and 2.) I, in no way, have disparaged this person on a public forum but have attempted to add a voice of reason to a previously emotional response to this man's problem where everyone criticized the lack of response to his plight but no one was willing to help. If you have taken a personal interest in this person and want to make his tragedy your personal campaign and become the moral standard bearer for his cause, I suggest you get out your check book, as Hellosailor has suggested, and send this man some money or jump in your car or plane and go help him at once. Any other response can only be construed as pseudo-sincerity and pretentiousness on your part. Perhaps the first stanza of W.B. Yeats poem "The Second Coming" says it best:
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the center cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
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Old 21-07-2012, 15:08   #44
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

I anchored near Gulfport only ten days before Debbie hit and hauled ass northwards to beat her, docking only two days before she made landfall. That could have just as easily have been me stuck on that beach had I decided to wait her out.

Somebody give me an address and I'll send the guy at least a day's fine.

I have personally seen a similar situation near Destin, Florida where a rescue was successful with some 3/4 inch rope and serious horsepower. The grounded sailboat suffered only scuffs and lost some bottom paint.

Somebody with a power boat (or two) can get this guy off.
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Old 21-07-2012, 17:27   #45
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

"Somebody with a power boat (or two) can get this guy off."

Dude, he's got more than half of a seven foot deep keel down in the sand. Pulling the boat sideways is, again, just gonna break off the keel, or break something else.

By him a role of primer cord and blow off the last four feet of keel, and you'll do him a bigger favor.
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