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Old 29-07-2012, 15:57   #406
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

Thanks to numerous CF members, and others, who are currently organizing an effective salvage/refloating attempt, scheduled for 8:00 AM Wednesday, August 1:

See ➥ Pitch In And Help
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Old 29-07-2012, 16:11   #407
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
So much for "there but for the grace of god go I", huh?

No.

Sorry, but this was not an act of God. it was a mild storm and he should have been ready for it.

I simply would not be out there with no sanitation. If nothing else I would have a porta-potty, and I *would* get in my dinghy and bring it ashore to empty it. It's not that hard. I WOULD be walking any dog I owned, and I WOULD be cleaning up any poop he left on the poop deck. If I couldn't manage to be a decently prepared mariner, I WOULD sell the boat for scrap if necessary and move back ashore. I have already sold one boat for scrap, in fact. It broke my heart to do so, but the boat was unsafe, and couldn't be repaired, and I declined offers from others to help me sneak it some place to scuttle it.

I live aboard myself. You think I haven't thought about these things? As locals have seen Jay in the bar while someone else tried to free his boat, realized that the boat was crammed with stuff and that his dog isn't being cared for properly, the tide of local opinion has turned. A week ago a number of local people were trying to organize some way to help him, but no more. I have passed the link to the other thread to two other groups, but not because I think it's what should be done. I believe it's up to each person to decide what is right for him or her.

I'm very grateful for the tremendous amount of help I have received, but I have given back (and am giving back) in return. I constantly seek more information about what I'm doing and how to do it both most effectively and most safely.

I can't imagine how anyone is going to enforce a demand that he start meeting his sanitary load on the environment more appropriately, or that he maintain his ground tackle so that it is effective against the storms we get here, or for that matter, that he start meeting his dog's needs better. I believe he WILL break free again. Apparently he hit a boat during this storm, and it could -- and probably will -- break loose again. It's not right that he should hit other, more properly secured, boats -- or other objects.

There is no "There but for the grace of God go I" in this. Part of being a responsible mariner is knowing when to throw in the towel.
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Old 29-07-2012, 16:14   #408
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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Originally Posted by forsailbyowner View Post
The second boat your referring to was traded last year for a perkins diesel and a generator. The new owner is a scrapper that parts out boats and cuts them up for the lead in the keel. He found out the keel was concrete and abandoned plans to haul it and cut it up.Not Jays boat or problem anymore, title has been transferred out of his name.

Yes cant understand the dog feces and how someone could live like that.
Again a small powerboat will blow out the sand and get her floating using the propwash. i did the same thing helping another boat that was washed up there. In one tide i was able to get it from laying on its side to upright turned and moved about 10 feet. This was done with a dinghy and 3.5 hp motor.I volunteered my time on that one when i saw people attempting to use a gas powered pump to do the same. Im a 1000 mi sail away or Id help out again.

Jay has been trying to fixup the boat, but imagine how much is leftover out of his fixed income after basic life needs are met. Then imagine how many months of saving it would take to buy something like motor mounts to install that perkins. At one time I had 2 boats at gulfport.
my project boat had a150lb ships anchor with 1" line. It came very close to ending up the same way. I rescued it when it was halfway across the bay. The 1" line had been cut about 30' from the bow. Later I saw that pontoon boat cruising thru the anchorage going across the bow of several moored boats. An idiot or intentionally trying to cut rodes?
I don't know, but I know at least one boat owner who intends to put chain right below the waterline and hopes that boat hits his rode.
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Old 29-07-2012, 16:23   #409
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
raku--i dont believe the plan is to dig it and leave it as is--relocation is necessary to make boat not be in short water.
rofl....try it-is called relocation by those who use brains and thinking. relocate boat from the shallows into the deep water.
i think lannen wants a roommate-- where, lannen, do you intend to place the man after you destroy his boat--he still needs housing--mebbe your place????

Fascinating Zee. Where are they going to relocate the boat to? Have you looked at a chart of Boca Ciega Bay?

I know you *believe* he is going to be relocated, but I haven't seen that stated as part of the plan. It's hard to find any place in this part of Boca Ciega Bay that has 10 feet at low tide. It would be a long dinghy ride to shore, especially in rough water. Debby's effects, coming and going, lasted five days. How long would he have to stay on his boat, isolated, under such conditions?

Add to the fact, there are other boats in the good anchorage spots, and they aren't going to welcome having a boat with no holding tank near them. *Those* people will likely be calling the authorities about violations. He'll have to pay those tickets, or his boat will be impounded and he'll be ... without a home. The CG has impounded boats here for unpaid violations before.

This is a tough problem with no simple solutions, but I suggest you try to find a chart that gives depths of Boca Ciega Bay (they're hard to find). There is no "deep water" here to move him to. Even a lot of Tampa Bay is very shallow.

If lannen wants a roommate, then lots of people in Gulfport want a roommate at this time.

If someone were living on land, and going out in his back yard and using it as a latrine, the neighbors would be right to complain.
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Old 29-07-2012, 17:22   #410
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Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

At first reading about this guys plight, I was sympathetic towards his problems. After seeing the news video and calling himself a Captain and blue-water sailor, I was hoping for a rescue of some sort. Now...reading this other stuff of his true lifestyle sickens me. Here in Ca. I see a lot of this. People posing as something they're not. As mentioned by Ruku, Lannen and a few others, this guy will be back to business as usual. These types of squatters tend to be water ticks.
I applaud the people that are helping them. I know it's a fine line between helping and enabling. It's quite clear people here are doing the right thing and limiting the help. Sometimes if you want to help someone you have to peel them off your back and put them on their feet.
I was with some friends down at a pump out dock (public, anyone can tie up for a bit to take on water, pump out for free, load stuff, etc). This bucket of crap boat that needed to get towed in with a dinghy showed up, the alcoholic residents of which were nothing short of destitute slobs, and the whole scene honestly made me a bit ashamed of the waterfront. It sees like [metropolitan area] + [temperate climate] + [america] + [protected anchorage or mooring] = 10% bad apples that can ruin the whole bunch.

It's not about having a modern production boat with a wax job or a baba with 20 coats of varnish. Plenty of people are on 5k-10k dollar boats and take care of them and themselves just fine.

A bum doesn't become a sailor by taking possession of a sailboat. When the guy cares about the waterfront, his vessel, and other vessels as much as other mariners do, then he'll get my respect. Until then, onward with the chainsaws. Maybe he'll be unable to register a new boat until he pays his outstanding tab (never).
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Old 29-07-2012, 17:25   #411
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And folks wonder why Florida is getting so aggressive toward long term anchoring. To read that this guy "with no money" is sitting in a bar while others are trying to free his boat is disgusting. Bring on the chain saw.
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Old 29-07-2012, 17:31   #412
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

Quote:
A bum doesn't become a sailor by taking possession of a sailboat. When the guy cares about the waterfront, his vessel, and other vessels as much as other mariners do, then he'll get my respect. Until then, onward with the chainsaws. Maybe he'll be unable to register a new boat until he pays his outstanding tab (never).
Well said!
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Old 29-07-2012, 17:56   #413
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
Fascinating Zee. Where are they going to relocate the boat to? Have you looked at a chart of Boca Ciega Bay?

I know you *believe* he is going to be relocated, but I haven't seen that stated as part of the plan. It's hard to find any place in this part of Boca Ciega Bay that has 10 feet at low tide. It would be a long dinghy ride to shore, especially in rough water. Debby's effects, coming and going, lasted five days. How long would he have to stay on his boat, isolated, under such conditions?

Add to the fact, there are other boats in the good anchorage spots, and they aren't going to welcome having a boat with no holding tank near them. *Those* people will likely be calling the authorities about violations. He'll have to pay those tickets, or his boat will be impounded and he'll be ... without a home. The CG has impounded boats here for unpaid violations before.

This is a tough problem with no simple solutions, but I suggest you try to find a chart that gives depths of Boca Ciega Bay (they're hard to find). There is no "deep water" here to move him to. Even a lot of Tampa Bay is very shallow.

If lannen wants a roommate, then lots of people in Gulfport want a roommate at this time.

If someone were living on land, and going out in his back yard and using it as a latrine, the neighbors would be right to complain.
ActiveCaptain.com shows the charts for the bay quite well. And YIKES! it sure is shallow. WTF is a 7' draft boat doing in there in the first place?
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Old 29-07-2012, 18:16   #414
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

so, raku--what is it you call the moving of something out of one place and into another...i consider it relocation. you should as well.
doesnt have to be far--relocation can be one inch to the left.
could be into a dumpster. is moved, er , relocated.
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Old 29-07-2012, 20:38   #415
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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Originally Posted by avb3 View Post
ActiveCaptain.com shows the charts for the bay quite well. And YIKES! it sure is shallow. WTF is a 7' draft boat doing in there in the first place?

Exactly. In a really bad storm the waves could suck up the water out from under him (it happened to me and I only draw 4 1/2') and really bang him around, even in 10' of water, and there isn't much of that. It's a very shallow bay, and if the boat were in pristine condition he would have a VERY hard time selling it here because of the terrible mismatch between the boat and the water.

And it's not just this little bay. All up and down the west coast of FL there's a lot of shallow water.

This is what I mean. To "relocate" this guy you'd have to move him out of the area. That just isn't going to happen.
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Old 29-07-2012, 20:57   #416
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel heart

I was with some friends down at a pump out dock (public, anyone can tie up for a bit to take on water, pump out for free, load stuff, etc). This bucket of crap boat that needed to get towed in with a dinghy showed up, the alcoholic residents of which were nothing short of destitute slobs, and the whole scene honestly made me a bit ashamed of the waterfront. It sees like [metropolitan area] + [temperate climate] + [america] + [protected anchorage or mooring] = 10% bad apples that can ruin the whole bunch.

It's not about having a modern production boat with a wax job or a baba with 20 coats of varnish. Plenty of people are on 5k-10k dollar boats and take care of them and themselves just fine.

A bum doesn't become a sailor by taking possession of a sailboat. When the guy cares about the waterfront, his vessel, and other vessels as much as other mariners do, then he'll get my respect. Until then, onward with the chainsaws. Maybe he'll be unable to register a new boat until he pays his outstanding tab (never).
I've been following this thread from the beginning. And I agree completely- this group CF trying to rally support will only serve to toughen local laws to prevent longterm anchoring by more responsible stewards of waterways and the lifestyle. See-- local opinion is rightfully now turned against this guy, and now we have basically swooped in as a online, remote community to "save" the situation.
Now, an average gulfport resident swimming in this guy's poop on their his/her beach will now be on the horn to their local lawmakers asking them how to make sure this never happens again.

What's the answer? Strict anchorage restrictions, etc.

Same reason I side with those who feel you need to "earn" your right to cross oceans, etc. The more underprepared people mess up in public, or cost others money, insurance payouts, etc- the bigger chance that the other 90% of us who work hard to minimize risk, maximize preparedness, and exhibit seamanship, will end up having to put up with onerous legal restrictions on our sailing lifestyle.

That said, I applaud those folks who are taking action for being of that character to be "doers" rather than "talkers." But remember one thing. "Capn" Jay is not a sailor, but is using a boat as his personal homeless shelter. No matter what one's income, living on land is cheaper than water, so we really should be helping him find a cheap apartment and not trying to save his floating wrecking ball of a boat.
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Old 29-07-2012, 21:08   #417
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
so, raku--what is it you call the moving of something out of one place and into another...i consider it relocation. you should as well.
doesnt have to be far--relocation can be one inch to the left.
could be into a dumpster. is moved, er , relocated.

I wouldn't dream of telling you what to think so please don't do it to me. Thanks in advance.
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Old 30-07-2012, 07:50   #418
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

Just another update after speaking with Steve(knothead)

1. He is asking for as many loacal people as possible to help off load the boat tonight at 5:00 PM

2. Bring a truck if possible, bring a dock cart if you have one. Bring a buddy.

3. I will also be there, to help.

4. Capt'n Jay appears to have gotten himself into some type of altercation and maybe at the local VA hospital. (this is 3rd hand and has not been confirmed)

5. Last an not least be careful when you open you wallets to make sure it goes where it is needed.
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Old 30-07-2012, 09:54   #419
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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5. Last an not least be careful when you open you wallets to make sure it goes where it is needed.
I am beginning to think just the gas over there and back might be too much.
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Old 30-07-2012, 10:14   #420
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

On the scale there are the sideliners, talkers, encouragers, doers, crusaders, and the Don Quixote's. All of who have the best of heart and intentions. Where on the scale this endeavour falls is up for interpretation.
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