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Old 29-07-2012, 08:38   #391
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

"The efforts gets rid of the immediate problem of...How is that not a good thing? "

Let's pretend the usual quick fixes to make us feel good are not the goal, and a long-term improvement is.

First, apply the law of unintended consequences:

You refloat the boat, which is now sitting quietly. During the next storm (hurricane season is just entering high gear) the boat *will* break free again. Next time, it may hit three boats on the way to a breakwater or rock pile, causing three owners to lose their boats, sinking one of them, and finally spilling 100 gallons of diesel and 100 gallons of sewage even if no life is lost.

Yes, things can get much worse in a flash, and the neighbors and neighborhood damaged in the process. Oh, then Jay will be back to square one, homeless, but also with a complete loss of possessions.

If that situation isn't anticipated and prevented? The only question is when, and how badly. Freeing his boat, nice. Well intentioned. Like buying a good steak dinner and a bottle of wine for a man who staggers into an oasis dying of thirst.

Then what?

As it is said, if you save a man's life you become responsible for it. He really needs more than a lift off the beach and a new anchor rode.
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Old 29-07-2012, 08:40   #392
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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raku--i dont believe the plan is to dig it and leave it as is--relocation is necessary to make boat not be in short water.
rofl....try it-is called relocation by those who use brains and thinking. relocate boat from the shallows into the deep water.
i think lannen wants a roommate-- where, lannen, do you intend to place the man after you destroy his boat--he still needs housing--mebbe your place????

Fl west coast has no deep water. Practically speaking.

Unless you are off shore or in a channel.
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Old 29-07-2012, 08:45   #393
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"The efforts gets rid of the immediate problem of...How is that not a good thing? "

Let's pretend the usual quick fixes to make us feel good are not the goal, and a long-term improvement is.

First, apply the law of unintended consequences:

You refloat the boat, which is now sitting quietly. During the next storm (hurricane season is just entering high gear) the boat *will* break free again. Next time, it may hit three boats on the way to a breakwater or rock pile, causing three owners to lose their boats, sinking one of them, and finally spilling 100 gallons of diesel and 100 gallons of sewage even if no life is lost.

Yes, things can get much worse in a flash, and the neighbors and neighborhood damaged in the process. Oh, then Jay will be back to square one, homeless, but also with a complete loss of possessions.

If that situation isn't anticipated and prevented? The only question is when, and how badly. Freeing his boat, nice. Well intentioned. Like buying a good steak dinner and a bottle of wine for a man who staggers into an oasis dying of thirst.

Then what?

As it is said, if you save a man's life you become responsible for it. He really needs more than a lift off the beach and a new anchor rode.
No one, I believe, is under the illusion that freeing the boat solves any problem other than freeing the boat.

The social issue probably will not be solved. But all journeys start with a step, don't they?
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Old 29-07-2012, 08:48   #394
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

therapy--i already know that--there is shallow water and less hallow. pardon my wrong wording--there are places in which the water is more than 4 ft--that is what i meant by deeper water. there is such a thing in fla--i did sail tampa bay a few times in my near year of sailing gulf of mexico and fla. is a lot like san diego bay except has lightning.
deep water is a relative term which includes deeper than the keel of the boat in question. i know there is that--btdt. but we didnt go hrd aground anywhere--geeee--we musta used a depth sounder..LOL

yes, avb--step by step. poco a poco.
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Old 29-07-2012, 08:55   #395
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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therapy--i already know that--there is shallow water and less hallow. pardon my wrong wording--there are places in which the water is more than 4 ft--that is what i meant by deeper water. there is such a thing in fla--i did sail tampa bay a few times in my near year of sailing gulf of mexico and fla. is a lot like san diego bay except has lightning.
deep water is a relative term which includes deeper than the keel of the boat in question. i know there is that--btdt. but we didnt go hrd aground anywhere--geeee--we musta used a depth sounder..LOL

yes, avb--step by step. poco a poco.
Yea you did use one Zee and stayed in channels till you found a little spot to anchor in. I am sure of that. You were traveling - not squatting.

He has 7'. There are almost no areas in Tampa Bay that can be used for full time mooring. That means protected from all sides. He has no motor right?

The personal goals and skill sets are a little different here, don't you agree?
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Old 29-07-2012, 08:57   #396
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

One thing I have noticed here is the fact that the farther one is away from this body of water the more compassion there seems to be.

The closer to the action the less there is.

Funny thing.
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Old 29-07-2012, 09:01   #397
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

Again everyone, This situation of the boat in the middle of a small public beach is the issue at hand right now, let take care of that, then lets take care of Capt'n Jay.

We have a plan, but it is being developed as we speak and will continue after the boat is removed. Solving one problem will create other problems, we are aware of that. Trying to solve everything all at once is not possible right now.
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Old 29-07-2012, 09:11   #398
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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Again everyone, This situation of the boat in the middle of a small public beach is the issue at hand right now, let take care of that, then lets take care of Capt'n Jay.

We have a plan, but it is being developed as we speak and will continue after the boat is removed. Solving one problem will create other problems, we are aware of that. Trying to solve everything all at once is not possible right now.
I sent you an email to your aol.com address advising I can help coordinate the email traffic. Not sure if you got it yet?
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Old 29-07-2012, 09:21   #399
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

therapy--i think the close in ones only want to observe a boat crushing ceremony.
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Old 29-07-2012, 09:25   #400
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

Zeehag wrote:
therapy--i think the close in ones only want to observe a boat crushing ceremony

I think you are wrong about this, though I can not speak for everyone, I think most of us want this to end as a win, win, for the comunity and Capt'n Jay
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Old 29-07-2012, 09:33   #401
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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Zeehag wrote:
therapy--i think the close in ones only want to observe a boat crushing ceremony

I think you are wrong about this, though I can not speak for everyone, I think most of us want this to end as a win, win, for the comunity and Capt'n Jay


Which is why I will be there (barring work popping up) to help get the boat off the beach. This is for the town and the kiddies that play there.

I have no illusions about trying to change someones lifestyle.
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Old 29-07-2012, 09:39   #402
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

therapy--if i werent thousands of miles away i would be there also..\
seems most of the folks who show are in it for the help factor--i dont know this lennan soul--he verbalizes negativity on this subject--is prolly not a sailor and has negativity as his mainstay.
sailors aid those needing help. sans judgementalism. judge not lest thee be judged. help those in need. the rest sorts out later.
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Old 29-07-2012, 10:14   #403
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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No one, I believe, is under the illusion that freeing the boat solves any problem other than freeing the boat.

The social issue probably will not be solved. But all journeys start with a step, don't they?

Yes they do start with a step. A step in the right direction. I don't believe the right direction though is further out in deeper water. I would be curious as to the general thought of this situation by the people that live there in Gulf Port and if that has been given any serious consideration as well.
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Old 29-07-2012, 10:42   #404
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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I'm with you on this one. "captain" Jack, or whatever his name is, is exactly the type of person who makes a stain on the waterfront (literally and figuratively) for the rest of us. This is the guy using boats as flop houses, having others clean up after his mess, and sucking up tax money. He and others like him are why dye tablets get dropped in heads, anchorages get shut down or severely regulated, and moorings that can be better managed are sprouting up everywhere.
At first reading about this guys plight, I was sympathetic towards his problems. After seeing the news video and calling himself a Captain and blue-water sailor, I was hoping for a rescue of some sort. Now...reading this other stuff of his true lifestyle sickens me. Here in Ca. I see a lot of this. People posing as something they're not. As mentioned by Ruku, Lannen and a few others, this guy will be back to business as usual. These types of squatters tend to be water ticks.
I applaud the people that are helping them. I know it's a fine line between helping and enabling. It's quite clear people here are doing the right thing and limiting the help. Sometimes if you want to help someone you have to peel them off your back and put them on their feet.
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Old 29-07-2012, 10:47   #405
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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therapy--if i werent thousands of miles away i would be there also..\
seems most of the folks who show are in it for the help factor--i dont know this lennan soul--he verbalizes negativity on this subject--is prolly not a sailor and has negativity as his mainstay.
sailors aid those needing help. sans judgementalism. judge not lest thee be judged. help those in need. the rest sorts out later.

Except you forgot one thing.

Capt. Jay is not a sailor. He just lives on a boat.
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