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Old 25-07-2012, 11:46   #196
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

All this talk about capitalisim and such is way of basis for this tread, this is about a guy stuck on the beach. Those that want to critique our government good or bad please find another thread. If you want to help this guy personaly, please do so if it makes you feel better.
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Old 25-07-2012, 11:56   #197
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
Um... I'm female, and not to be rude, but ... no thanks.

It does amaze me when other people can't tolerate disagreements that don't even directly involve them. I viewed it, until the last post, as someone playing Devil's Advocate. While it can be irritating, it can also lead to productive ideas. That's why I'm so hot on this -- I want to see the guy's boat saved, not cut up. But I know it can't stay there, either.

Ok...your female...big deal! Can't tolerate disagreement. Sure I can. What gets me is how monotonous it is to see post after post on multiple pages so you can be right about something. Do you want to be right...or do you want to be happy? After a few post my eyes just glazed over it and continued on to view other opinions. So go grind your axe on someone else.
I want to see the guys boat saved too and stand by the opinion that it matters not of a persons wealth, status or even moral conduct. A person in need is a person in need.
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Old 25-07-2012, 12:01   #198
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
Ok...your female...big deal! Can't tolerate disagreement. Sure I can. What gets me is how monotonous it is to see post after post on multiple pages so you can be right about something. Do you want to be right...or do you want to be happy? After a few post my eyes just glazed over it and continued on to view other opinions. So go grind your axe on someone else.
I want to see the guys boat saved too and stand by the opinion that it matters not of a persons wealth, status or even moral conduct. A person in need is a person in need.
Raku has been updating us on the real situation on the ground (no pun intended). As the OP, I for one appreciate that, as I had assumed by the lack of response from posters in the Tampa Bay area that the situation was being ignored.

I was wrong. As always, there is more to a story than in the news.
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Old 25-07-2012, 13:15   #199
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Reading through the entire thread, and ignoring posts regarding capitalism/socialism/etc....

No way simple manpower and shovels, kedges, etc will get him out. As far as donating money to this, I just don't know. I give to charity every year, but honestly aren't there needier situations and people than this derelict boat belonging to a man with an income who will likely be able to find an apartment bigger than his boat to rent?

Living on the water would be great, and so would living on a boat, but this guy's dream seems to be beyond his means.I feel bad for that, but just not sure that there aren't more worthy causes for money donations. Big picture, of course.
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Old 25-07-2012, 16:29   #200
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

Now I am just lurking waiting to see what will happen. learning more about boats in the sand
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Old 25-07-2012, 17:01   #201
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

2 options:-

1) winch her ashore! Would be a lot easier and cheaper to put the required "oomph" into the pull.

and then onto a truck.

Maybe even also pump air / water into the sand to free her up a touch...and possibly haul her out keel first?! either way she will probably get a bit wet inside as will be dragged sideways.

2) the locals have a whip around for another free boat. and the rent of a chainsaw to deal with the current one.......if the free boat is a long way away the local authorities may even chip in the bus fare
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Old 25-07-2012, 18:13   #202
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

I first saw the boat on the beach when we anchored for the fourth of July fireworks. Gulfport puts on a great show. A boat on the beach after a blow isn't an unusual sight around here but it was the first one I've seen on the swimming beach.
I didn't think much about it after that until I read the newspaper story. I've been debating since then as to whether or not to get involved.
Well, today, after reading this thread at the shop. I stopped by on my way home from work and waded out to the boat. I got the hem of my shorts wet, but was able to walk up to the side and knock.
As soon as I rapped on the topsides, voices from shore started yelling "he's not aboard". A moment later a head popped up in the companionway.
I said. "you're not Jay". He said he was Dave. Or maybe Dan. I can't remember now. Jay was off on an errand and I had just missed him it seems.
Anyway. I introduced myself and told Dave that I wanted to ascertain what the make of boat the 'Promise' is. He didn't know. So I asked for permission to come aboard to check a few things out. Dave said that was fine. I still don't know what make that boat is. But I'm pretty sure it's a full keel, cutaway forefoot boat. I'm still a little skeptical about the seven foot draft but who knows.
There wasn't anything on the transom that id'ed the boat.
Has it been mentioned anywhere? I haven't seen it if so.

When I first stepped aboard, carefully avoiding the piles of dog poop, I noticed that the cockpit. Which is quite large was filled with stuff. There was indeed a washing machine and two generators on deck. One was running. The deck is fairly covered with dog **** and the boat is terribly neglected.
The rigging is suspect, but heavy. The mast seems solid but takes a sharp bend port above the spreaders. I believe this could be corrected with a little tuning.
There were two anchors deployed. Both rodes were slack. The boat was standing as vertical as if she were floating.
The dog was below. Barking.
Good dog.

I told Dave, as I handed him my business card, to please tell "Capt'n Jay" That he wasn't doing himself any favors. I told him to say that sailors will come to the aid of other sailors willingly. But are a little less enthusiastic about helping a lubber with no sense of seamanship.
I told him to tell Jay that it was inexcusable to have a cockpit full of garbage, dogs and generators and crap all over a boat that should be lightened and laying on it's side with as many lines and anchors as he could beg borrow or steal kedging with all their might.

I told Dave to tell Jay that if he wanted my help, I would get his boat off. According to Dave, the deadline is August 8.
I told him that the only way I would help him is if he would listen to me and let me do things my way.

I doubt that Jay is going to call me. But if he does, I'll help him. I have a lot of tackle myself and I have some contacts in the area. I think it's very doable. It's too bad that the effort hasn't been underway since the grounding. But that's what a real sailor would have done. Jay isn't a sailor. I don't give a damn if he has a piece of paper saying he is. One look at his boat will tell you all you need to know.

I'm a little torn, but the way I look at it is this. Jay has to live somewhere. Is it serving society to chop up his boat and put him on the street? Or is it better to get his boat off the beach and let him get on with his life with a roof over his head. Gulfport will have to foot the bill for the demolition and hauling. They would probably be money ahead to lend some equipment and hands to help get the boat off.

I don't fool myself that I'm helping a fellow sailor. Just seems to be "the lesser of two evils kind of thing".
The boat is nearly a derelict. Perhaps Jay is too. Not for me to judge. But if you get Jay and his boat off the water, there will be another around the corner.
The way the economy is these days, I keep thinking "There but for the grace of God go I".

If he does call, I'll be counting on you guys that can to lend a hand.

And Cup, pm me here or on the other site about your visit to Tampa if you haven't lined up a sail yet.
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Old 25-07-2012, 18:31   #203
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

Quote:
Originally Posted by knothead View Post
I first saw the boat on the beach when we anchored for the fourth of July fireworks. Gulfport puts on a great show. A boat on the beach after a blow isn't an unusual sight around here but it was the first one I've seen on the swimming beach.
I didn't think much about it after that until I read the newspaper story. I've been debating since then as to whether or not to get involved.
Well, today, after reading this thread at the shop. I stopped by on my way home from work and waded out to the boat. I got the hem of my shorts wet, but was able to walk up to the side and knock.
As soon as I rapped on the topsides, voices from shore started yelling "he's not aboard". A moment later a head popped up in the companionway.
I said. "you're not Jay". He said he was Dave. Or maybe Dan. I can't remember now. Jay was off on an errand and I had just missed him it seems.
Anyway. I introduced myself and told Dave that I wanted to ascertain what the make of boat the 'Promise' is. He didn't know. So I asked for permission to come aboard to check a few things out. Dave said that was fine. I still don't know what make that boat is. But I'm pretty sure it's a full keel, cutaway forefoot boat. I'm still a little skeptical about the seven foot draft but who knows.
There wasn't anything on the transom that id'ed the boat.
Has it been mentioned anywhere? I haven't seen it if so.

When I first stepped aboard, carefully avoiding the piles of dog poop, I noticed that the cockpit. Which is quite large was filled with stuff. There was indeed a washing machine and two generators on deck. One was running. The deck is fairly covered with dog **** and the boat is terribly neglected.
The rigging is suspect, but heavy. The mast seems solid but takes a sharp bend port above the spreaders. I believe this could be corrected with a little tuning.
There were two anchors deployed. Both rodes were slack. The boat was standing as vertical as if she were floating.
The dog was below. Barking.
Good dog.

I told Dave, as I handed him my business card, to please tell "Capt'n Jay" That he wasn't doing himself any favors. I told him to say that sailors will come to the aid of other sailors willingly. But are a little less enthusiastic about helping a lubber with no sense of seamanship.
I told him to tell Jay that it was inexcusable to have a cockpit full of garbage, dogs and generators and crap all over a boat that should be lightened and laying on it's side with as many lines and anchors as he could beg borrow or steal kedging with all their might.

I told Dave to tell Jay that if he wanted my help, I would get his boat off. According to Dave, the deadline is August 8.
I told him that the only way I would help him is if he would listen to me and let me do things my way.

I doubt that Jay is going to call me. But if he does, I'll help him. I have a lot of tackle myself and I have some contacts in the area. I think it's very doable. It's too bad that the effort hasn't been underway since the grounding. But that's what a real sailor would have done. Jay isn't a sailor. I don't give a damn if he has a piece of paper saying he is. One look at his boat will tell you all you need to know.

I'm a little torn, but the way I look at it is this. Jay has to live somewhere. Is it serving society to chop up his boat and put him on the street? Or is it better to get his boat off the beach and let him get on with his life with a roof over his head. Gulfport will have to foot the bill for the demolition and hauling. They would probably be money ahead to lend some equipment and hands to help get the boat off.

I don't fool myself that I'm helping a fellow sailor. Just seems to be "the lesser of two evils kind of thing".
The boat is nearly a derelict. Perhaps Jay is too. Not for me to judge. But if you get Jay and his boat off the water, there will be another around the corner.
The way the economy is these days, I keep thinking "There but for the grace of God go I".

If he does call, I'll be counting on you guys that can to lend a hand.

And Cup, pm me here or on the other site about your visit to Tampa if you haven't lined up a sail yet.
Best post of the thread.....

I tip my hat to you sir for the generosity and compassion you have shown regardless of the situation that confronted you...

All the best in your endeavours.....
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Old 25-07-2012, 18:33   #204
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

Hey Knothead, thanks for the insight, and i couldn't agree more about creating another homeless person or getting him the hell outa there with boat intact.
I have donated what i could to the donation site,,and hope something happens soon,
There but for the grace of god go i, is the truest sentiment yet, if someone could bring a crane out to the legal edge of the beach, if i could get there, i would risk the fine by driving it the rest of the way to winch him out, up, or sideways.
Too much bureaucracy involved with everything these day's,,i say lets just Git Err Dun !!!!!!
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Old 25-07-2012, 18:41   #205
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

Quote:
Originally Posted by knothead View Post
I don't fool myself that I'm helping a fellow sailor. Just seems to be "the lesser of two evils kind of thing".
The boat is nearly a derelict. Perhaps Jay is too. Not for me to judge. But if you get Jay and his boat off the water, there will be another around the corner.

.
Way to go Knothead.

If you think you can do it, you probably can. I question a straight kedge though.

I will give Saturday but that is all I can muster for being unavailable.
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Old 25-07-2012, 18:51   #206
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

Quote:
Originally Posted by knothead View Post
I first saw the boat on the beach when we anchored for the fourth of July fireworks.....

I don't fool myself that I'm helping a fellow sailor. Just seems to be "the lesser of two evils kind of thing".
Knothead--

In terms of breaking this guys keel free, it might be worth a visit to the local Fire Station. A pumper truck and a couple of hose nozzels at full blast will definately clear a whole lott'a sand away from a yacht's keel/rudder in very short order and as reported, the yacht is certainly within hose reach of the shore. I saw this methodology put into practice a l-o-n-g time ago whan a local luminaries' yacht went up on the beach in Santa Barbara. I don't think it took the Fire Department an hour to break his keel out of the sand and another hour for a tug to drag her sideways into deep water little worse for wear (or where for that matter). The local Fire Station was quite happy to help there and, considering the temperatures here, is likely to be no less willing here (a "swim call", eh?).

FWIW...
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Old 25-07-2012, 19:02   #207
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

Quote:
Originally Posted by knothead View Post
I first saw the boat on the beach when we anchored for the fourth of July fireworks. Gulfport puts on a great show. A boat on the beach after a blow isn't an unusual sight around here but it was the first one I've seen on the swimming beach.
I didn't think much about it after that until I read the newspaper story. I've been debating since then as to whether or not to get involved.
Well, today, after reading this thread at the shop. I stopped by on my way home from work and waded out to the boat. I got the hem of my shorts wet, but was able to walk up to the side and knock.
As soon as I rapped on the topsides, voices from shore started yelling "he's not aboard". A moment later a head popped up in the companionway.
I said. "you're not Jay". He said he was Dave. Or maybe Dan. I can't remember now. Jay was off on an errand and I had just missed him it seems.
Anyway. I introduced myself and told Dave that I wanted to ascertain what the make of boat the 'Promise' is. He didn't know. So I asked for permission to come aboard to check a few things out. Dave said that was fine. I still don't know what make that boat is. But I'm pretty sure it's a full keel, cutaway forefoot boat. I'm still a little skeptical about the seven foot draft but who knows.
There wasn't anything on the transom that id'ed the boat.
Has it been mentioned anywhere? I haven't seen it if so.

When I first stepped aboard, carefully avoiding the piles of dog poop, I noticed that the cockpit. Which is quite large was filled with stuff. There was indeed a washing machine and two generators on deck. One was running. The deck is fairly covered with dog **** and the boat is terribly neglected.
The rigging is suspect, but heavy. The mast seems solid but takes a sharp bend port above the spreaders. I believe this could be corrected with a little tuning.
There were two anchors deployed. Both rodes were slack. The boat was standing as vertical as if she were floating.
The dog was below. Barking.
Good dog.

I told Dave, as I handed him my business card, to please tell "Capt'n Jay" That he wasn't doing himself any favors. I told him to say that sailors will come to the aid of other sailors willingly. But are a little less enthusiastic about helping a lubber with no sense of seamanship.
I told him to tell Jay that it was inexcusable to have a cockpit full of garbage, dogs and generators and crap all over a boat that should be lightened and laying on it's side with as many lines and anchors as he could beg borrow or steal kedging with all their might.

I told Dave to tell Jay that if he wanted my help, I would get his boat off. According to Dave, the deadline is August 8.
I told him that the only way I would help him is if he would listen to me and let me do things my way.

I doubt that Jay is going to call me. But if he does, I'll help him. I have a lot of tackle myself and I have some contacts in the area. I think it's very doable. It's too bad that the effort hasn't been underway since the grounding. But that's what a real sailor would have done. Jay isn't a sailor. I don't give a damn if he has a piece of paper saying he is. One look at his boat will tell you all you need to know.

I'm a little torn, but the way I look at it is this. Jay has to live somewhere. Is it serving society to chop up his boat and put him on the street? Or is it better to get his boat off the beach and let him get on with his life with a roof over his head. Gulfport will have to foot the bill for the demolition and hauling. They would probably be money ahead to lend some equipment and hands to help get the boat off.

I don't fool myself that I'm helping a fellow sailor. Just seems to be "the lesser of two evils kind of thing".
The boat is nearly a derelict. Perhaps Jay is too. Not for me to judge. But if you get Jay and his boat off the water, there will be another around the corner.
The way the economy is these days, I keep thinking "There but for the grace of God go I".

If he does call, I'll be counting on you guys that can to lend a hand.

And Cup, pm me here or on the other site about your visit to Tampa if you haven't lined up a sail yet.
+1 also. Concise, to the point with a single post. Thank you for the update. Exactly how I feel. being human, I was born being judgmental. Yet I know the right thing to do is help anyone in need. Afterwards, I would give him a piece of my mind for identifying himself as something he is not. It's true it gives responsible liveaboards a bad name and sailors in general. Thanx again...CS
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Old 25-07-2012, 19:09   #208
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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Originally Posted by foolishsailor View Post
Actually Social Democracies or "nordic socialism" generate the highest per captia wealth in the world. They also generate the highest quality of life, lowest unemployment, longest lifespans, and healthiest populations.

See: Denmark, sweden, norway etc...

All that in places most of us would consider the weather to shitty to live in...

What unregulated capitalism, which is what exists in the US creates is a small percentage of people with extreme wealth.

The US has the largest gap between classes in the western world.
Cherry picking a few small relatively well off, long established, countries with homogenous populations, high education, and small minority underclasses does not mean that this model can or will work anywhere else. If I recall correctly they are all monarchies as well - but likely no one really thinks that this is a good model either.

Typically never mentioned is that the wealthy people in the USA pay most of the taxes that keep the government running and provide transfer payments to those at the bottom. These transfer payments like food stamps, the earned income tax payments, free medical care, free schooling, and other kinds of help (especially 'in kind' help) are not typically counted when averaging incomes for the purposes of proving how bad the USA is. The principal in this case 'Jay' is apparently being supported by just such a transfer payment ($800/mo, perhaps from Social security?). He nevertheless 'has' a yacht, a large dog to support, and apparently eats well (steak being mentioned). The fact that he does not have a large income is apparently not impacting his chosen lifestyle that much. Which is not to say that more money would not improve things - but for someone with 'nothing' he seems to be doing OK.
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Old 25-07-2012, 19:37   #209
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

Quote:
Originally Posted by knothead View Post
I first saw the boat on the beach when we anchored for the fourth of July fireworks. Gulfport puts on a great show. A boat on the beach after a blow isn't an unusual sight around here but it was the first one I've seen on the swimming beach.
I didn't think much about it after that until I read the newspaper story. I've been debating since then as to whether or not to get involved.
Well, today, after reading this thread at the shop. I stopped by on my way home from work and waded out to the boat. I got the hem of my shorts wet, but was able to walk up to the side and knock.
As soon as I rapped on the topsides, voices from shore started yelling "he's not aboard". A moment later a head popped up in the companionway.
I said. "you're not Jay". He said he was Dave. Or maybe Dan. I can't remember now. Jay was off on an errand and I had just missed him it seems.
Anyway. I introduced myself and told Dave that I wanted to ascertain what the make of boat the 'Promise' is. He didn't know. So I asked for permission to come aboard to check a few things out. Dave said that was fine. I still don't know what make that boat is. But I'm pretty sure it's a full keel, cutaway forefoot boat. I'm still a little skeptical about the seven foot draft but who knows.
There wasn't anything on the transom that id'ed the boat.
Has it been mentioned anywhere? I haven't seen it if so.

When I first stepped aboard, carefully avoiding the piles of dog poop, I noticed that the cockpit. Which is quite large was filled with stuff. There was indeed a washing machine and two generators on deck. One was running. The deck is fairly covered with dog **** and the boat is terribly neglected.
The rigging is suspect, but heavy. The mast seems solid but takes a sharp bend port above the spreaders. I believe this could be corrected with a little tuning.
There were two anchors deployed. Both rodes were slack. The boat was standing as vertical as if she were floating.
The dog was below. Barking.
Good dog.

I told Dave, as I handed him my business card, to please tell "Capt'n Jay" That he wasn't doing himself any favors. I told him to say that sailors will come to the aid of other sailors willingly. But are a little less enthusiastic about helping a lubber with no sense of seamanship.
I told him to tell Jay that it was inexcusable to have a cockpit full of garbage, dogs and generators and crap all over a boat that should be lightened and laying on it's side with as many lines and anchors as he could beg borrow or steal kedging with all their might.

I told Dave to tell Jay that if he wanted my help, I would get his boat off. According to Dave, the deadline is August 8.
I told him that the only way I would help him is if he would listen to me and let me do things my way.

I doubt that Jay is going to call me. But if he does, I'll help him. I have a lot of tackle myself and I have some contacts in the area. I think it's very doable. It's too bad that the effort hasn't been underway since the grounding. But that's what a real sailor would have done. Jay isn't a sailor. I don't give a damn if he has a piece of paper saying he is. One look at his boat will tell you all you need to know.

I'm a little torn, but the way I look at it is this. Jay has to live somewhere. Is it serving society to chop up his boat and put him on the street? Or is it better to get his boat off the beach and let him get on with his life with a roof over his head. Gulfport will have to foot the bill for the demolition and hauling. They would probably be money ahead to lend some equipment and hands to help get the boat off.

I don't fool myself that I'm helping a fellow sailor. Just seems to be "the lesser of two evils kind of thing".
The boat is nearly a derelict. Perhaps Jay is too. Not for me to judge. But if you get Jay and his boat off the water, there will be another around the corner.
The way the economy is these days, I keep thinking "There but for the grace of God go I".

If he does call, I'll be counting on you guys that can to lend a hand.

And Cup, pm me here or on the other site about your visit to Tampa if you haven't lined up a sail yet.
you are a fine fellow...good luck..DVC
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Old 25-07-2012, 19:51   #210
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

The numbers can't be that different in the U.S.

If this is even half true, then its obvious what measures should be taken.



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