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Old 24-07-2012, 18:23   #151
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
Rakuflames thanks for clearing up a few things, I was sure that we all were mis-informed about this. For me at least, I feel better that our fellow boaters in the area have given a fart about the plight of this guy.

Well, I don't think we were misinformed except about the real location of the boat in relation to the typical beach waterline. Debby wasn't that big, but she pushed water not only over the entire beach but across the road parallel to the beach and north several blocks up from that street. The tide was extremely high for a couple of days.

I know people who are still constantly doing the kind of problem-solving and brainstorming we've seen here. Those people have not given up, but it's going to be a really tough problem to solve -- and it may not be solvable in any happy way.

The City really doesn't want to salvage the boat. I have seen them do everything they can, time and time again, to avoid doing that. They make an exception when the boat is a serious navigation hazard. For instance, in the storm I keep mentioning a year ago April, a boat that was derelict by any definition went aground on some rocks right outside the entrance to the marina. Another storm and the boat could have easily been blown into the marina itself where it could have done a lot of damage careening off properly secured boats.

They salvaged it.

This is the same sort of situation, a fact unfortunately left out of the news reports. In another storm that boat would be a serious hazard to other boats and potentially even land-based properties. It's really unfortunate.
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Old 24-07-2012, 18:26   #152
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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I'm talking about a beach-based pump, and less than hour of pumping. And again, I'm all for the 'more involved kedging method' that doesn't cost a dime.

The guy doesn't have any money right now, but as you said, he is a very kind person and people like him. I've seen many fundraisers happen after the fact. I for one would contribute a few bucks.

Heck, I see sailors raising $10's of thousands, just to go sailing! they aren't make that money themselves, they're simply asking for it! But I guess a poor guy in need is not as worthy a cause as a someone wanting to take off on an adventure.

I know very well how businesses work. They can't dare spare a day of their time and loose a few grand. That would be blasphemy.

No, that's capitalism. If one doesn't like that economic system, I think Albania is still pure communist. Everywhere else, free enterprise is either overtly or covertly encouraged.
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Old 24-07-2012, 18:26   #153
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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(...) The problem right now is everybody wants their money up front and the city wants their money yesterday.
Sometimes the way out of trouble is to give more credit to a person who is found insolvent. 'Our' governments do so for huge corporations, why can't a city do so for an individual in distress?

This city has some issues and the guy in 3' of water is probably not their biggest one.

b.
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Old 24-07-2012, 18:30   #154
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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No, that's capitalism. If one doesn't like that economic system, I think Albania is still pure communist. Everywhere else, free enterprise is either overtly or covertly encouraged.
There's no rule in the "free enterprise handbook" that says you can't contribute a day of your time to a free cause. It's not capitalism, it's greed.

I'll digress. And I'm happy to hear there are people actually trying to help the guy. I just wish the city would give him some time to sort this out instead of charging him by the day. I mean, even if they give him a time frame before they salvage it, that would be much better than a daily fine.... As much as I hope he gets the boat floating and goes back to being a regular public nuisense, I have a feeling his 'help fund' will turn into a 'need a new home fund'.
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Old 24-07-2012, 18:31   #155
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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Sometimes the way out of trouble is to give more credit to a person who is found insolvent. 'Our' governments do so for huge corporations, why can't a city do so for an individual in distress?

This city has some issues and the guy in 3' of water is probably not their biggest one.

b.

Whereas I have moved from "help the guy" to "find out more about the guy." The report here that he owes more than one person lots of money is distressing.

It's a small town. If true, they will turn on him -- and rightly so IMO.
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Old 24-07-2012, 18:32   #156
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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Sometimes the way out of trouble is to give more credit to a person who is found insolvent. 'Our' governments do so for huge corporations, why can't a city do so for an individual in distress?

This city has some issues and the guy in 3' of water is probably not their biggest one.

b.
They got 1000 problems and derelict boat ain't one
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Old 24-07-2012, 18:33   #157
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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There's no rule in the "free enterprise handbook" that says you can't contribute a day of your time to a free cause. It's not capitalism, it's greed.

I'll digress. And I'm happy to hear there are people actually trying to help the guy. I just wish the city would give him some time to sort this out instead of charging him by the day. I mean, even if they give him a time frame before they salvage it, that would be much better than a daily fine.... As much as I hope he gets the boat floating and goes back to being a regular public nuisense, I have a feeling his 'help fund' will turn into a 'need a new home fund'.

They did give him a time frame, and they know he has nothing and don't expect to collect the money. It was part of setting the time frame.

The boat is a potential serious hazard in hurricane season. If a tropical storm, or worse, hurricane, forms off our coast and threatens to come in, the City won't have time to salvage the boat before trouble hits. That's a very big boat to be loose.
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Old 24-07-2012, 18:36   #158
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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They did give him a time frame, and they know he has nothing and don't expect to collect the money. It was part of setting the time frame.

The boat is a potential serious hazard in hurricane season. If a tropical storm, or worse, hurricane, forms off our coast and threatens to come in, the City won't have time to salvage the boat before trouble hits. That's a very big boat to be loose.
I understand the concern, but by all accounts, the danger of him being blown ashore was exactly the same while he was at anchor. It's not "worse" now.
But now that it's in the news, they have the opportunity to finally do something the laws previously wouldn't allow.

That's capitalism.
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Old 24-07-2012, 18:38   #159
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

So how many posts has this been within the last hour? Without the thread being closed. Surely this is some type of record
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Old 24-07-2012, 18:40   #160
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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No, that's capitalism. If one doesn't like that economic system, I think Albania is still pure communist. Everywhere else, free enterprise is either overtly or covertly encouraged.
Is it really that if one does not like how a system works, the only way for them is to emigrate? But escapism solves no issues. Say we all escape to Albania. All except for the guy with his keel in the sand.

How about trying to change the system so that it is more live'able for many, rather than more profitable for the few?

BTW: "The Albanian republic is a parliamentary democracy established under a constitution renewed in 1998."

See? No way out. The Albanian option is over and out. We must change the systems we are living in if we want better lives for ourselves and for our kids.

barnie
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Old 24-07-2012, 18:41   #161
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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Originally Posted by callmecrazy View Post
I understand the concern, but by all accounts, the danger of him being blown ashore was exactly the same while he was at anchor. It's not "worse" now.
But now that it's in the news, they have the opportunity to finally do something the laws previously wouldn't allow.

That's capitalism.

So you've seen the beach? And you know how close he is to the pier? And how close buildings would be in a 5' storm surge instead of a 2' one? Or that a 5' storm surge is unusual in a tropical storm?

It IS worse because he is so much closer to things he can seriously damage in the next storm. Remember, small town, small assets. Do they really want their beach pavilion or the bath house Cap'n Jay is using as his bathroom taken out by his boat? How about the city pier not that far to the east of him? How about the restaurant directly to his north?

What's wrong with the media drawing attention to this problem?

For that matter, why is capitalism now the bad guy instead of an experienced sailor who had inadequate ground tackle for typical weather where he was????
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Old 24-07-2012, 18:47   #162
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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So you've seen the beach? And you know how close he is to the pier? And how close buildings would be in a 5' storm surge instead of a 2' one? Or that a 5' storm surge is unusual in a tropical storm?

It IS worse because he is so much closer to things he can seriously damage in the next storm. Remember, small town, small assets. Do they really want their beach pavilion or the bath house Cap'n Jay is using as his bathroom taken out by his boat? How about the city pier not that far to the east of him? How about the restaurant directly to his north?

What's wrong with the media drawing attention to this problem?

For that matter, why is capitalism now the bad guy instead of an experienced sailor who had inadequate ground tackle for typical weather where he was????

C'mon, now you're being dramatic. Capitalism has always been the bad guy!

I'm just saying that if his anchors broke free in a hurricane he would probably end up on the same stretch of beach as he would right now during the same hurricane. It really doesn't matter if its 1000 yards vs. 20 yards with no anchor, he's gonna end up on top of the same pavilion.

But nobody was charging him by the day before.
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Old 24-07-2012, 18:52   #163
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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Whereas I have moved from "help the guy" to "find out more about the guy." The report here that he owes more than one person lots of money is distressing.

It's a small town. If true, they will turn on him -- and rightly so IMO.
OK.

But turning on him will not get that boat of that beach.

I believe the exercise is to get the boat off the beach.

I know one person who dragged a wooden keel boat off a beach in Africa - with her own winches and her own anchors.

I have also posted the other day a story of people who got tossed over the reef and had to cut a channel in the coral bar to get out of the pool. And they did it.

I have seen 'dry dock' barges in Martinique and Auckland but I am not sure if 3' of water are enough for such a device to be used.

b.
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Old 24-07-2012, 18:54   #164
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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C'mon, now you're being dramatic. Capitalism has always been the bad guy!

I'm just saying that if his anchors broke free in a hurricane he would probably end up on the same stretch of beach as he would right now during the same hurricane. It really doesn't matter if its 1000 yards vs. 20 yards with no anchor, he's gonna end up on top of the same pavilion.

But nobody was charging him by the day before.

EXACTLY why he should have had a good mooring, and EXACTLY why he is actually responsible for his predicament.

And, we're not talking about hurricanes here. This area hasn't been directly hit by a hurricane (even a Cat I) in something like 78 years. However, we get either a brush by a hurricane (Francis, Jean, in 2004, another TS in 2005, and Debby recently as examples) quite frequently. Anyone who lives in Boca Ciega Bay on a boat and does NOT have a good, well maintained mooring, is acting in a reckless manor. BC Bay is shallow and the waves can get big enough to make big problems, especially for big boats that can do a lot of damage to other boats and other things.

I didn't mention "hurricane" in any of my posts. Keep in mind that Debby was a very weak TS and we did not take a direct hit from her. That was further north of here.
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Old 24-07-2012, 18:55   #165
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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OK.

But turning on him will not get that boat of that beach.

I believe the exercise is to get the boat off the beach.

I know one person who dragged a wooden keel boat off a beach in Africa - with her own winches and her own anchors.

I have also posted the other day a story of people who got tossed over the reef and had to cut a channel in the coral bar to get out of the pool. And they did it.

I have seen 'dry dock' barges in Martinique and Auckland but I am not sure if 3' of water are enough for such a device to be used.

b.

It will end efforts to help him, and then the city will quite rightly salvage the boat. That's what will happen if reports of him being a flim-flam artist of some kind are true.
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