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Old 18-11-2012, 11:45   #1156
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Don't know about you all, but I'm still betting that the thing gets cut into chunks. Technical issues. A nice name for never done it before and we are ad libbing as we go. While it has been done before, it's never been done on a ship this size nor under similar conditions. Everyone keeps pointing at the battle wagons in Pearl, sorta neglecting the fact that Pearl is a protected harbor. This tub is stuck on the shore of an Island in the open sea.
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Old 18-11-2012, 13:11   #1157
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Size: See the original "Flight of the Pheonix" for a discussion of scale, and why size doesn't matter. Or just do the work with a dlie rule, there are no decimal places to confound things.

Open ocean? Not quite. But that's also why they were sinking pilings into granite and taking other precautions against unwanted movement.

I'm betting one lira they get it off in one piece. (It's still like 600 lira to the dollar, right?<G>)
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Old 18-11-2012, 14:51   #1158
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Let's remain optimistic that they can pull this off. We've got some of the best minds and abilities in the marine salvage industry working the project and even though the scale is greater than we've seen before, if the salvers can pull this off, it will set a new high water mark (excuse the pun) in the marine salvage business. Phil
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Old 18-11-2012, 16:26   #1159
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

This is not a particularly exposed location. It is only a few miles west of mainland Italy, on the east side of the island, and to some degree protected from the south by the another island and reef. Strong winds will likely come from either the SW or NW, not the east. Certainly it can kick up a bit in this channel, but nothing like on the west side of the island or in a more exposed position. This wreck is located in a pretty sheltered location; once the anchoring cables are rigged so as to stop the sliding I think weather will not be a threat to the success of the project, although it may slow things down.

The comparison with battleships is off the mark: they are built very strong and heavy. The Concordia was built very lightly and is much less able to handle unusual stresses. For me, the big question is whether she can be pulled upright, and land on her bottom, without being pulled apart. I'm betting they can do it, but the two days that they plan on spending to roll her upright will be telling. That will be worth watching.

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Old 18-11-2012, 22:14   #1160
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Size: See the original "Flight of the Pheonix" for a discussion of scale, and why size doesn't matter. Or just do the work with a dlie rule, there are no decimal places to confound things.

Open ocean? Not quite. But that's also why they were sinking pilings into granite and taking other precautions against unwanted movement.

I'm betting one lira they get it off in one piece. (It's still like 600 lira to the dollar, right?<G>)
I'll see your lira and a raise you a ruble.

While you think about that, have a look at the law of mechanical similitude. Then have a look at relative material strengths. This bucket is built as light as possible, and will tear apart if they don't get it just exactly right.
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Old 19-11-2012, 11:47   #1161
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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I'll see your lira and a raise you a ruble.
I'll see your ruble and raise you 1 Vietnamese Dong.
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Old 19-11-2012, 12:25   #1162
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Personally, I think it'll work. I've moved machinery that has weighed up to 64,000# All it takes is a lot of planning and leverage and then the patients to follow through.

The big problem is re-ballisting the water inside. If they pump it out as it goes over it'll take the stress off the hull and not cause a lunge as it crosses the COG. And hopefully they've patched the hole.
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Old 20-11-2012, 01:21   #1163
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

I think it will buckle myself, these are floating tin cans meant to suck away the monies of millions. Sure toss in a casino, a couple of theatres and a broadway show, a few decks of stores selling high profit trinkets. It sure ain't no battleship with frames after frames and compartments. I bet it splits right near the area where the rock went through, it will break its back. The engineering is quite a feat, a testament to our capabilities and especially when the greeners want to hobble every inch of it its truly amazing.

I wish it well but I'm prepared to witness a calamity, please post any links or even TV channels that will cover this when they parbuckle.
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Old 20-11-2012, 01:54   #1164
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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I think it will buckle myself, these are floating tin cans meant to suck away the monies of millions. Sure toss in a casino, a couple of theatres and a broadway show, a few decks of stores selling high profit trinkets. It sure ain't no battleship with frames after frames and compartments. I bet it splits right near the area where the rock went through, it will break its back. The engineering is quite a feat, a testament to our capabilities and especially when the greeners want to hobble every inch of it its truly amazing.

I wish it well but I'm prepared to witness a calamity, please post any links or even TV channels that will cover this when they parbuckle.
Every ship in commercial use is built to standards, they are not tin cans they are structures complete with the necessary panel strengths to cope with the loads.

No it was never designed to be in this situation however much calculation will have been done prior to the salvage going in this direction.

This ship never let the passengers down it was humans who did that i.e. navigation.

Cruise ships perform a function, many people get very much enjoyment from them, people who would never get to go to sea normally.

Personally although i've sailed since i was young i quite enjoy cruise boats they are a great holiday especially with a group of friends.

Try it you might enjoy it at least then your criticism would have some foundation.

Cheers.
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Old 20-11-2012, 03:02   #1165
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

+1 Lagoon4us
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Old 20-11-2012, 10:05   #1166
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

I'm with Pelagic and Lagoon4us... anyone who has been aboard the Liberty ships that were popped out like popcorn during WWll will realize that while flimsey, they did the job under amazingly difficult circumstances. Don't think the design and workmanship was any less in the cruise ship than in the ones that crossed the Atlantic and Pacific in some pretty treacherous weather and adverse wartime circumstances. Phil
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Old 20-11-2012, 13:21   #1167
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Capt. Phil - be careful of the anecdotes you choose. My mother worked one summer while in college for the Kaiser yards here in Portland. One of the ships slid down the ways and promptly broke apart in the river. Of course it immediately became a matter of national security so no one was supposed to talk of it. Nonetheless everyone in the yards at the time knew of it. And there have always been stories of Liberty ships breaking up at sea. Let us hope that the Costa Concordia is built to a higher standard than that.

Greg
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Old 20-11-2012, 13:32   #1168
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Honestly i think this particular ship has well proven her panel strength, in that she has gouged out an incredible amount of plating by an enormous rock and still remains intact structurally i.e. not broken up.

Liberty ships failed due to the use of non low hydrogen welding and workers paid piece work, there are many stories of flat bar and round being welded into the fillets to give size.

We must give credit where credit is due, these salvors/engineers etc are doing their best, in front of a world press awaiting failure, boats aren't supposed to lay that way nor suffer the stresses she has.

Cheers.
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Old 20-11-2012, 16:47   #1169
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

That was exactly my point, Greg, however poorly made... many of the Liberty ships were lucky to make it through the conflict let alone stand up to the rigors of the open ocean. I believe that the construction standards are higher today then during the 40's. My Mum's boyfriend survived several North Atlantic crossings in what he referred to as 'rust buckets' and lived to tell me about the harrowing trips of storms, U-boats and mechanical/structural failure that were common place. His stories planted the seed of working on the ocean in me at a very tender age. Cheers, Phil
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Old 22-11-2012, 10:31   #1170
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

I agree, the construction standards are higher today, ships are not being slammed together in 2 weeks or as little as 7 days, but the bean counter rules supreme. Bribes can be paid and modern corporations are all about cutting corners to maximize profit. Don't be surprised if it isn't done here too. However, the construction standards never took into consideration this particular problem. While she may have stood up to a slashing tear in the bottom, across god knows how many frames, that is quite different from trying to right her.

@ Delmarry, I agree, I too have moved some pretty heavy stuff in my days as a millwright. But most of it was heavy machines, or large tanks. This is several orders of magnitude greater, and I don't think the hull can take it.

In the end the proof will be in the pudding. It will either work or it won't. I still think it won't.

@ JoeDiver, Hmm getting serious are we? Ok. I'll see your Vietnamese Dong, and raise you 10 Albanian Lek.
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