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Old 09-07-2012, 10:48   #1111
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Originally Posted by St. Elsewhere View Post
This sounds like a major policy error: "The Captain is allowed to choose the type of charts to be used" . . . .
Questions Raised about Costa Concordia Charts

04/07/2012 The trial that aims to shed some light on the grounding of the cruise vessel Costa Concordia near Isola di Giglio, Italy, on 13 January 2012, has unearthed several errors. The watertight doors that should have prevented water entering the vessel were not closed, the black box was malfunctioning and booked in for maintenance on 14 January, and the charts used are said not to be approved.

It is not clear if the nautical charts used indicate the shoal on which the Costa Concordia ran aground. For ship owner Costa Crociere, the captain is responsible for the charts used for navigation. According to the statement made by the ship’s cartographer, Simone Canessa, the electronic charts “were not of the authorised type”. Costa Crociere stated that the ship was equipped with all the paper-based and electronic charts for the planned route, as will be shown during this stage of the trial. It is however the captain’s duty, on the basis of the voyage plan that he himself draws up, to ensure that the ship is equipped with every nautical chart that is needed. A captain who chooses to sail a route different from the planned itinerary is to ensure that the available charts are suitable in scale and accuracy of detail.
Lots of vagueness to the statements made above, but there are many of charting systems out there that are not running true ENC charts - that could be all that means. The paper chart requirement still applies and those then are what meet the official requirement for proper charts.

And yes, the company (any company) will always say that the chart inventory/portfolio is the Master's responsibility. In a way, they're right. I do believe that it is in the U.S. CFRs that the master is ultimately responsible for having the proper charts. Not sure what Italian law says on the subject. I know where I work, chart inventorying, correcting and ordering are totally the responsibility of the crew (generally, the 2/M) - we just order what we need and the office gets it to us. Proper charts are very important to the safe navigation of the vessel and I've had a captain more than once refuse to sail due to a lack of charts for the voyage. Didn't matter that he had been into all the west coast ports probably a couple hundred times over his career. Pissed off the office but we weren't going anywhere until we got them, period. This was on a large tanker with a reputable company on the west coast of the U.S.

That being said, these little tidbits are completely irrelevant to the issue at hand and that is the decision that was made to pull off that maneuver in the first place. Radar settings, chart choices, etc. really have no bearing and are beating around the bush of the main point.

The lack of a functioning VDR should have been a no-sail item as well.
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:22   #1112
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

I can no more than agree with this comment. It is not the main office dictating the chartwork, it is the Cptn and 1/2 mate ordering and getting the correct material. Nopthing to do with the beancounters in the office.

Any serious sailor would have done a better job than this clown Schettino.
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:24   #1113
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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I can no more than agree with this comment. It is not the main office dictating the chartwork, it is the Cptn and 1/2 mate ordering and getting the correct material. Nopthing to do with the beancounters in the office.

Any serious sailor would have done a better job than this clown Schettino.
I second that. Who was it that allowed Schettino to be captain?
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Old 09-07-2012, 18:11   #1114
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Last year when I was on a cruise ship. will never do that again. I got a chance to talk to the chief navigator and he said they are no longer required to carry paper charts all electronic now which is scary
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Old 09-07-2012, 18:25   #1115
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Sorry, but to me that's about the LEAST scary thing about a cruise ship.
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Old 09-07-2012, 20:43   #1116
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Sorry, but to me that's about the LEAST scary thing about a cruise ship.
I agree. They almost always get you back to the dock without injury. My biggest concern is being confined in a bug incubator that gives you some sort of miserable sickness.
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Old 10-07-2012, 01:39   #1117
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Too many people packed into a confined space are causing risks of outbreaks of any thinkable disease. You see it hapen in hospitals, summercamps, hotels, anywhere large concentrations of people are packed together, if not a strict sanitary regime is installed, particular in kitchen(s) and waste water treatment. The latter one of the bigger concerns on large cruiseliners.

At regular intervals there are outbreak of diseases on the larger cruisers causing the break-off and untimely end of the cruise. Something to think about.
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Old 10-07-2012, 01:45   #1118
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Did 2 weeks on 'Oasis of the Seas' absolutely fantastic, great food, entertainment the lot.
Hand-wash stations everywhere, good medical facilities.

Had to fly in a 747 to get there as well, even shopped at Sawgrass Mills amongst thousands of shoppers..

But then i love living on the edge!!! ROFLMAO
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Old 10-07-2012, 09:06   #1119
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Did 2 weeks on 'Oasis of the Seas' absolutely fantastic, great food, entertainment the lot.
Hand-wash stations everywhere, good medical facilities.

Had to fly in a 747 to get there as well, even shopped at Sawgrass Mills amongst thousands of shoppers..

But then i love living on the edge!!! ROFLMAO
Wow...I'm shocked you survived such a dangerous encounter under such harsh conditions. You are very brave to actually leave your house.
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Old 10-07-2012, 10:14   #1120
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Last year when I was on a cruise ship. will never do that again. I got a chance to talk to the chief navigator and he said they are no longer required to carry paper charts all electronic now which is scary
The equipment standards to legally allow for that are actually pretty rigorous. They're not driving off of consumer-level chartplotters.

More important than the equipment, however, is the people making the decisions, taking in information from all sources, including their own senses. Even U.S. Navy vessels (supposed, "most technologically-advanced ships in the world" filled with hundreds of people onboard) still run aground and get in collisions.
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Old 10-07-2012, 13:58   #1121
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Musical chairs. Insurance doesn't want to pay, Captain wants to save his career, Company wants to return to making profit, a mad scramble of cover-your-ash and pass the buck. Very difficult to sort out the mess. Cruise ship? Get away from it all, and yet take it all along with you. Madness, but that's the world.
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Old 10-07-2012, 16:36   #1122
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Wow...I'm shocked you survived such a dangerous encounter under such harsh conditions. You are very brave to actually leave your house.
That was in response to the previous post, scary stuff mingling with others.... Cheers
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Old 10-07-2012, 19:14   #1123
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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That was in response to the previous post, scary stuff mingling with others.... Cheers
Yeah, I know....mine too....I just forgot the [/dripping sarcasm] tag...
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Old 10-07-2012, 21:59   #1124
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

So, saw this ad on this site today.... (sigh)

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Old 11-07-2012, 02:49   #1125
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

There was recently a new interview with Schettino where this former captain apoligised lightly for the "banal incident" as he called his big screw-up.

He showed again the clown he is. He claimed to be not in command on the bridge but was distracted from his work by someone. (Most probably this Croatian lady).
In the interview he accused again his senior officers and crew of incompetence
and the way they managed the evacuation from the Concordia.
"They had a black out" he said on tv news Canale 5 who paid him 50.000 Euro for this so called interview.
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