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Old 31-01-2012, 06:02   #886
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

The reason the ship "sank" is that it was beached, it is not at all clear at this point that if left in deep enough water it would have stayed afloat, but a ship on its side in water can't stay afloat! This ship had a double hull construction so IF the rock only got the outer layer, and even then IF the water tight compartments had been properly used, the ship wouldn't have sunk ( not so quickly any way ) . This captain not only chose a dangerous course but then panicked and ran his ship onto a reef and tipped it over. Someone promoted this man, someone monitored his performance, that someone should also be held liable for this catastrophe. My deepest sympathies to the victims.
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Old 31-01-2012, 06:21   #887
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

... and there are people that would never go on board of this ferry - cuz its not double-hulled:

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Old 31-01-2012, 09:21   #888
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

lola, perhaps you can give the rest of us some reference, some URL, some citation that indicates this ship had any type of double hull? That would be most unusual for a cruise ship and apparently you are the only one who has heard about it.

Also, a rock that is perhaps ten or fifteen meters in size drawing a gash the length of railroad cars (plural) tends to break through double hulls as easily as a hot knife through butter. A double hull still isn't battleship armour.



As to oil tankers "returning" to double hulls, I believe that was legislated and mandated upon them. If they want to enter sovereign waters (US and others) they had to use that construction. They were given no choice IIRC. And after being presented with the cleanup bill from the Exxon Valdez, the economics of oil tankers changed as well. In contrast the economics of a cruise ship sinking are a small fuel/oil supply and an international damage cap of some $73,000 US per person. As compared to the $2.3 million dollars per person allowed in the US for deaths from aircraft accidents.

It is all economics. Raise the liability limits for deaths at sea, and policies will change to follow. (Ain't gonna happen anytime soon.)
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Old 31-01-2012, 10:05   #889
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

The Smit process of installing flanges to the exterior of the hull, and drilling into the fuel tanks certainly appears to be done on a single hull. Take a look at the animation . . . .
Saturday, 28 January 2012

At a press conference held today on the island of Giglio, SMIT Salvage and its partner Fratelli Neri provided a technical briefing on the oil removal operation. A presentation and animation of the oil removal operation was provided to the press. A compilation of underwater video footage filmed by divers was also provided.
Two of the six forward fuel tanks have now been installed with a sealed flange and the remaining tanks were due to be prepared today. The six forward tanks are estimated to hold approximately two thirds of the (intermediate) fuel oil in the casualty.
Whilst the expectation was that the oil removal process would commence shortly after the press conference, operations were suspended on Saturday morning due to unfavourable weather conditions. The crane barge was disconnected from the casualty and brought into the protective port of the island Giglio. Weather permitting, we look forward to completing the preparations on the forward fuel tanks and commencing with the oil removal as soon as possible.
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Old 31-01-2012, 10:33   #890
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

good points,hellosailor. On those points alone, it would seem unlikely to double hull.
I hunted around on this subject, but I have only found it mentioned off-handed, that the hull was double (this on a cruise ship site giving specs)
but more prevalent, that the fuel tanks are "double- skinned" . Perhaps the "double-hull" is a common sort of info-drift, when information travels casually and editors are not particular.
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Old 31-01-2012, 11:42   #891
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

The fuel bunkerage is in the double bottom, i.e., between the inner and outer bottom plating. A complete double hull has the double bottom plating continued up the sides of the hull past the turn of the bilges and on up the sides to whatever point the architect or company desires. Most if not all large vessels have a double bottom for strength, but not all are double hulled.

Except for oil tankers, double hull construction is not mandatory. In any event, looking at the damage to the Concordia, even a double hull would not have saved her as several compartments in way of the diesel engine rooms suffered such severe damage that even a double hull would have been breached.

Quote:
Regulation 12 Double bottoms in passenger ships 1 A double bottom shall be fitted extending from the forepeak bulkhead to the afterpeak bulkhead as far as this is practicable and compatible with the design and proper working of the ship. .1 In ships of 50 m and upwards but less than 61 m in length a double bottom shall be fitted at least from the machinery space to the forepeak bulkhead, or as near thereto as practicable. .2 In ships of 61 m and upwards but less than 76 m in length a double bottom shall be fitted at least outside the machinery space, and shall extend to the fore and after peak bulkheads, or as near thereto as practicable. .3 In ships of 76 m in length and upwards, a double bottom shall be fitted amidships, and shall extend to the fore and after peak bulkheads, or as near thereto as practicable.
Solas Chapter II-1 Regulation 12

Double bottoms are therefore mandated, but double hulls are voluntary at this point.
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Old 31-01-2012, 12:05   #892
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Victim recovery suspended . . . .
Name: COSTA CONCORDIA
IMO: 9320544
Time: 31-01-2012 18:48:40 UTC

NEWS:
After 18 days of desperate searching for survivors of the Costa Concordia cruise ship disaster, Italian officials have been forced to pull out because of the risk to rescue workers. Italy's Civil Protection agency made the announcement on Tuesday due to the unstable positioning of the ships massive hull creating too many safety concerns to continue, reported USAToday.com. According to the statement, relatives and diplomatic officials representing the countries of the missing have been informed of the difficult decision.
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Old 31-01-2012, 13:14   #893
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astrid View Post
The fuel bunkerage is in the double bottom, i.e., between the inner and outer bottom plating. A complete double hull has the double bottom plating continued up the sides of the hull past the turn of the bilges and on up the sides to whatever point the architect or company desires. Most if not all large vessels have a double bottom for strength, but not all are double hulled.
This is from Wikipedia . . .
"A double bottom is a ship hull design and construction method where the bottom of the ship has two complete layers of watertight hull surface: one outer layer forming the normal hull of the ship, and a second inner hull which is somewhat higher in the ship, perhaps a few feet, which forms a redundant barrier to seawater in case the outer hull is damaged and leaks.
The space in between the two bottoms is often used as storage tanks for fuel or ballast water, though fuel storage in the double bottom is not allowed for newbuilt ships since 2007, due to MARPOL_73/78."

I wonder if it was done per MARPOL 73/78 since it was built just prior to this rule? No leaks so far. Maybe they incorporated this design feature.
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Old 31-01-2012, 16:46   #894
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

As far as I know, C. Concordia has her fuel in the double bottom, or at least the majority of it. It is probably fortunate, environmentally at least, that she took the impact abreast the engine rooms, since the bottom hull structure is used for the bedding of the diesels engines, otherwise there might have been a serious spill any of the fuel cells in the double bottom ruptured.
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Old 31-01-2012, 18:02   #895
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Astrid, your assessment is pretty much the way I read it as well. The ship has a double bottom. But the hull sides are single skin. The fuel tanks are between the inner and outer skin. Tankers now require the cargo to be carried within the inner hull. If I remember correctly it was the Exxon Valdez incident that really pushed this but I'm probably wrong.

As for getting that barge off the bottom, I keep trying to find out details of how it was put together. I suspect the lower hull is steel but a lot of the upper works is aluminum to save weight. But so far I can't find even a photo of her being built. As I mentioned before trying to right her with pontoons n cable is going to be more complicated by that light weight construction. I'll wager that she comes off the rocks as little tiny pieces.

Did anyone read about TK Bremen, the bulk carrier that went ashore on the coast of France a bit over a month ago? I thought they'd refloat her but they chopped her into bits and she is now part of maritime history.

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Old 01-02-2012, 07:24   #896
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Wind and waves continue to interfere with salvage operations. Here is a two-day forecast for Giglio Porto. 1.5 meter waves are the limit for operations . . . .
Marine Forecast for 42.4 N / 11.0 E

Conditions suitable for most marine activities
Caution. Small craft advisory
Hazardous conditions. Use extreme caution

2 Day Marine Forecast

Model Cycle 2012 FEB 01 00Z Time Zone: GMT + 1 Hours
Wednesday 2/1
Morning
Light winds with a slight chop. Small short period wind waves.
Seas: SW 1.8 to 2.3 meters at 6 sec.
Winds: ENE 8 to 11 knots
Afternoon
Windy conditions with choppy seas. Small craft advisory. Small short period wind waves.
Seas: WSW 1.2 to 1.6 meters at 7 seconds
Winds: NNW 17 to 23 knots
Thursday 2/2
Morning
Breezy whitecapping conditions with moderate choppy seas. Small short period wind waves.
Seas: N 0.6 to 0.7 meters at 3 seconds
Winds: NE 15 to 20 knots
Afternoon
Breezy whitecapping conditions with moderate choppy seas. Small short period wind waves.
Seas: NNE 0.6 to 0.8 meters at 3 sec.
Winds: NE 13 to 18 knots
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Old 01-02-2012, 20:45   #897
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16823955

Hope I'm not repeating other posts, but it really looks like Costa and the Italians already have some explaining to do!
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Old 01-02-2012, 21:02   #898
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJBrookster View Post
BBC News - Costa cruise Egypt accident report is 'strictly confidential'

Hope I'm not repeating other posts, but it really looks like Costa and the Italians already have some explaining to do!

I had raised the fact that Costa was already involved in earlier accidents of serious level. The fact that the company is not willing to admit their "laissez-faire" attitude is common practice in the Latin countries.
BBC is a bit late establishing this fact.
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Old 02-02-2012, 00:26   #899
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Quote:
Originally Posted by lolarose View Post
This captain not only chose a dangerous course but then panicked and ran his ship onto a reef and tipped it over.
You are assuming here that after the hit they still have the engine works. But from the analysis of the most probable track it seems like they don't have any control over the ship (no engine, no thrusters, no rudder). So running onto a reef was a mere coincident).
(At least this is how I see it).

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Old 02-02-2012, 02:27   #900
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Here is a reconstruction of the grounding based on AIS data:

Qastor - news
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