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Old 25-01-2012, 13:54   #826
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Originally Posted by sarafina View Post
Somewhere over in another thread about cruise ships someone mentioned a friend who was a career captain on these behemoths who said the ONLY problem with the job was the cargo couldn't be loaded thru hoses....


That pretty much cracked me up ; -)
hah! Reminds me of comments heard during my airline days. Cargo is a lot less annoying to work with.
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Old 25-01-2012, 14:44   #827
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Originally Posted by sarafina View Post
Somewhere over in another thread about cruise ships someone mentioned a friend who was a career captain on these behemoths who said the ONLY problem with the job was the cargo couldn't be loaded thru hoses....


That pretty much cracked me up ; -)
That is also my preference even with the hassle of filling the vacated holds with inert gas. As to the comments of the amount of crew and officers on the bridge of a commercial ship, for the most part, one, the deck officer that has that watch on rotation of 4 on 8 off. During my time of trying to rack up more on-duty sea time for license up grade, I was a deck officer/BCO aboard dynamically positioned (with (6) 5,000 hp electric thrusters) drill rig in deep water. More "con" time because instead of 4 on 8 off twice a day, it was 12 on 12 off. These pictures show my deserted bridge and captain's chair because I was alone. This is a 32,000 ton rig, 120 miles of the coast of Brazil.








And yours truly, goofing off...
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Old 25-01-2012, 14:47   #828
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Originally Posted by sarafina View Post
It seems pretty clear at this point that he and his first officer were on the lifeboat because he had been relieved of command by his staff and his ship was under command of the guest Costa Captain sailing with them, Roberto Bosio.

The Heroes of the Concordia : Discovery News
Yes, I saw that link you posted earlier. Thanks, by the way....

But that seems to be about about getting ready to abandon and even if Schettino was in the first boat, they were aground when he left. According to a sequence of events I've seen, the coastguard was given heads-up at 2206 by a passenger on a cell phone. Schettino was talking to the coastguard at 2226 wanting a tug while the ship was heading back to shore-bow-thrusting or drifting- to finally go aground at 2250.

If Schettino gave abandon at2258 and Bosia was in action getting ready to abandon "13 minutes earlier", when did Bosia "take command" and of what?? Schettino was still aboard ship.

Just trying to make aggregates of snap interviews and media garble go together. Witnesses shut up pretty quick after a disaster where there's an inquiry involved. Or the story inevitably fades and nobody will listen to a witness unless it's sensational copy. In fact,the smart thing to do,if you are ever involved in such a miserable incident, is to keep your mouth shut, or you might see yourself quoted in unrecognizable contexts as Bosia might be...he might be regretting it now.
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Old 25-01-2012, 16:36   #829
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Originally Posted by HappySeagull View Post
Yes, I saw that link you posted earlier. Thanks, by the way....

But that seems to be about about getting ready to abandon and even if Schettino was in the first boat, they were aground when he left. According to a sequence of events I've seen, the coastguard was given heads-up at 2206 by a passenger on a cell phone. Schettino was talking to the coastguard at 2226 wanting a tug while the ship was heading back to shore-bow-thrusting or drifting- to finally go aground at 2250.

If Schettino gave abandon at2258 and Bosia was in action getting ready to abandon "13 minutes earlier", when did Bosia "take command" and of what?? Schettino was still aboard ship.

Just trying to make aggregates of snap interviews and media garble go together. Witnesses shut up pretty quick after a disaster where there's an inquiry involved. Or the story inevitably fades and nobody will listen to a witness unless it's sensational copy. In fact,the smart thing to do,if you are ever involved in such a miserable incident, is to keep your mouth shut, or you might see yourself quoted in unrecognizable contexts as Bosia might be...he might be regretting it now.
You are right in questioning when Captain Bosia took control of the situation. Personally my guess is that some of the officers were in control of the ship and Captain took command of the situation when the Costa changed from a ship to a wreck. Who would want to be the last "Captain of the Costa. At that point what was required was some one with respect and knowledge to try and make the best of a bad situation and ensure an coordinated evacuation of the wreck.

As for the statements after the wreck of the ship Costa (and possible the company Costa) you are right that many would have preferred everyone said nothing until a full enquiry. Thankfully that did not happen as the statements and leaks are opening up like the hull of the ship. The victims of the wrecking of the Costa deserve that the truth come out and eventually it will. I am sure that Costa Company would have rather Schettino take the brunt of the storm and have the answers prepared by the time the enquiry final reports. The questions and publications have split Costa Company and Schettino so no collusion. The primary enquiry indicated that Costa company would have questions to answer. Now Schettino's lawyers have said that they intend to rely on the Black box for his defense. This does not mean that they believe that it was partially or completely working. If it is not working then the "lack of the evidence that would clear my client of the blame" is because Costa Co would not listen to concerns about the ship or fix problems with the ship.
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Old 25-01-2012, 17:30   #830
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Originally Posted by David M View Post
It is not nonsense. You have just never been on a merchant ship at sea.

On military ships they have a bunch of officers and enlisted people on the bridge but not on a merchant ship where it is common to have only two people on the bridge at sea. Not so much on cruise ships perhaps but tankers and container ships, yes, this is common. It depends on how many people the company wants to pay to stand a watch. At the very least legally you need a Mate and a Lookout.
This reflects my understanding of what it was like for my father as a mate on British merchant ships both during and after World War II, although for fairly obvious reasons, they had more lookouts on the bridge wings or at stern and bow. On the watches past midnight, he would typically be alone on the bridge, doing plots derived from star sights, checking dials and keeping the log up. More than once he would see the Captain materialize out of the gloom without warning. He said that even post-war, this was common enough to discourage napping or much in the way of slacking off.

How times have changed.

Ironically, perhaps, my father always preferred the ships that had German optics because you could see things better at night that might want to shoot at you.
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Old 25-01-2012, 17:31   #831
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Today's activity per VesselTrakker.com . . .

Name: COSTA CONCORDIA Costa Concordia - Type of ship: Passenger ship - Callsign: IBHD - vesseltracker.com
IMO: 9320544
Time: 25-01-2012 21:20:09 UTC

NEWS:
SMIT Salvage together with its partner Fratelli Neri have made good progress in the further preparations for the oil removal from the "Costa Concordia". Divers have inspected the forward section of the submerged under water ship of the ship have marked the drilling locations of the heavy fuel oil tanks. In the morning of Jan 25, the inflating of the oil barrier boom was initiated. In the course of the afternoon, the first booms were being installed. These oil booms will serve as a second inner protection barrier around the ship. An outer booma boom along the shoreline were previously already installed. Before the pumping of oil can commence, SMIT Salvage divers will need to place hot tap valves on the outer hull of the vesseldrill holes through the hull into the oil tanks.
Also the search for victims inside the wreck could be resumed after weather improved. Another hole was blown into deck 3 to gain access.
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Old 25-01-2012, 17:35   #832
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Quote:
Originally Posted by David M View Post
It is not nonsense. You have just never been on a merchant ship at sea.

On military ships they have a bunch of officers and enlisted people on the bridge but not on a merchant ship where it is common to have only two people on the bridge at sea. Not so much on cruise ships perhaps but tankers and container ships, yes, this is common. It depends on how many people the company wants to pay to stand a watch. At the very least legally you need a Mate and a Lookout.

Acknowledging a command so that the watch officer knows the command was understood is completely different from an agreement to do something. For example, a helmsman who repeats a command is not saying, Yes, I agree that this is a good idea. The helmsman is acknowledging the command back to the watch officer so the watch officer knows the helmsman understood his order.

Only one person has the "con" on a bridge. The management of a bridge should not be decision by committee.

On military ships as well only one person has the con.

Obviously, StarTrek is Hollywood's perception of bridge management.

There is always one commander at the bridge, and anyone else there is of lesser rank. The only situation I'm aware of where two people have to be in agreement would be in things like launching a nuclear weapon. Maybe there are other wartime situations where the person with his or her finger on the button has to have agreement, but they do not need to "concur" to make a 15 degree turn.

And I've never heard "I CONCUR, 15 degree turn" or whatever on Star Trek, and I may have seen every episode and movie ever made. The the command officers does not have to get the permission of junior officers to execute a turn.
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Old 25-01-2012, 17:43   #833
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Not so much on cruise ships perhaps but tankers and container ships, yes, this is common. It depends on how many people the company wants to pay to stand a watch. At the very least legally you need a Mate and a Lookout.
I am not entirely sure about a modern cruise ship, since there are quite a few high tech systems to monitor on the bridge, but at least in bygone times, it was normal to keep three officers on duty on the bridge of a passenger ship--one of the senior officers (chief officer, First or second officer) and a pair of junior officers (third, fourth, fifth or sixth). The captain of course could be on the bridge at any time.

Captain aside, the officer of the watch was one of the three seniors, and the two junior officers were there to assist--usually one at or near the engine room telegraph while the other junior was available to keep the log and chart up to date, run errands and make rounds.

As to orders, one never questions the orders of the senior officer on the bridge. Orders are not a matter for discussion and it works up the chain of command. The orders of a junior watch keeping officer may be over ridden by the OOW, and the OOW's order might be overridden by the captain if present, but it is not a discussion.
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Old 25-01-2012, 17:56   #834
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Originally Posted by MacG View Post
Source?
Complete Guide to Cruising and Cruising Ships. Its motors are within the pods and the very short shafts are within the pods and are not exterior to the ship. This is the "in" thing for modern cruise ships.

Azimuth thruster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 25-01-2012, 17:56   #835
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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...ps-I don't see "3rd officer" as the one who said that-I see "according to a witness"
Yes it's a sloppy piece of journalism but the framing suggests (to me) that the source is Silvia Coronika, who is identified in numerous other articles (but not in this one) as the ship's third officer (or "mate" for whom that's the preferred nomenclature ).

But there's plenty of wiggle room for all surmisers at the mo because the sum of all the testimonies to date cannot credibly be fashioned into a convincing narrative; just too many contradictions. The truth will only out when those testimonies are tested.

But don't let that stop us.
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Old 25-01-2012, 17:59   #836
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Schettino's lawyer is anticipating using data from the VDR in his case despite earlier reports that Schettino had reported the VDR "broken" 15 days prior to the incident.

"The Costa Concordia cruise liner was beset by structural problems that affected its balance and made it easier to sink, Captain Francesco Schettino's defence lawyer has claimed.

The ship's balancing pump and ballast had inbuilt structural problems, an allegation that will be proven by the Voyage Data Recorder (VDR), the defence lawyers said."


To report problems or to leave feedback about this article, e-mail: g.mezzofiore@ibtimes.co.uk
To contact the editor, e-mail: editor@ibtimes.co.uk
Note it is the bridge voice recorder that was broken , not the voyage data recorder

Dave
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Old 25-01-2012, 18:05   #837
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Originally Posted by Astrid View Post
I am not entirely sure about a modern cruise ship, since there are quite a few high tech systems to monitor on the bridge, but at least in bygone times, it was normal to keep three officers on duty on the bridge of a passenger ship--one of the senior officers (chief officer, First or second officer) and a pair of junior officers (third, fourth, fifth or sixth). The captain of course could be on the bridge at any time.
Received this "reassurance" email today from Norwegian Cruise Lines. It indicates two officers are on duty in the bridge.

"Dear Valued Guest,

"Thank you for choosing Norwegian Cruise Line. We are confident that you will have a wonderful vacation. We want to take this opportunity to assure you that the safety of our guests and crew is, at all times, our number one priority.

"We operate all of our vessels to meet and exceed the requirements of the Safety of Life at Sea (SOLAS) convention and the International Safety Management Code maritime standards, the international safety requirements which govern the cruise industry. Every crew member is well trained in the Company's stringent safety protocols, participating in weekly safety drills onboard every one of our ships.

"Our Captains are experienced seafarers with an average of 33 years at sea. All of our Captains come up through the ranks progressing from Second Officer to First Officer and then Chief Officer up to Staff Captain before they can become Captains. On average, it takes at least 15 years for a Captain to be promoted into that role. We further ensure that our Captains regularly undergo rigorous simulation training on navigation and bridge operations.

"To assist our Captains and Officers while at sea, we have extensive navigation protocols in place. Our bridge operations are based on a two-person team approach. Accordingly, there are always two officers in charge of bridge operations, mandating strict adherence to operating procedures. Furthermore, our bridge teams follow pre-set voyage plans which are thoroughly reviewed and discussed by the Captain and bridge team prior to port departures and arrivals. In addition, all of our ships employ the latest state-of-the-art navigational equipment and technology to ensure that our bridge teams have the most accurate data regarding the planned itinerary.

"Prior to every cruise setting sail, we hold a mandatory safety drill for all guests during which important safety information is reviewed and demonstrated. We also show an extensive safety video which runs continuously on the stateroom televisions should further information be required.

"We appreciate you choosing Norwegian Cruise Line and we look forward to welcoming you aboard soon."
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Old 25-01-2012, 18:06   #838
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

justwaiting, all good points you make. There are several officers that have not been heard from aren't there? The First Mate, for instance (or have I missed something?)
If Schettino relies upon "a black box that cannot be produced in court" as a defence, it is damning in the public eye, however good a legal tactic it is, because it implies there is no better defence.
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Old 25-01-2012, 18:10   #839
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Complete Guide to Cruising and Cruising Ships. Its motors are within the pods and the very short shafts are within the pods and are not exterior to the ship. This is the "in" thing for modern cruise ships.

Azimuth thruster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
She has shafts and rudders. How else was she steered after she lost power.
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Old 25-01-2012, 18:15   #840
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Note it is the bridge voice recorder that was broken , not the voyage data recorder

Dave
The VDR is a single package that records both the voices on the bridge and the data from various systems. The two news stories did make it sound like they were separate devices. An earlier post described the specifications of the particular VDR installed on the Concordia.

Here is additional information that describes a second set of hard drives that may explain the discrepancy:
Daily News
24 Jan 2012


Concordia VDR fault was due to be fixed

Please note that this is a subscriber area - to download this issue of the magazine a valid username and password are required. If you have forgotten your details please email customer.support@ihs.com

A FAULT in Costa Concordia’s VDR was due to be repaired on 14 January, the day after it capsized, the company has confirmed. However, the problem only affected the 12-hour recording in the capsule itself, a spokesman assured Fairplay, not the two hard disks on the bridge, which held details of its last 24 hours and the previous 30 days. An ‘error code’ related to the external capsule was reported to the ship’s superintendent on 10 January, said the spokesman, who added that arrangements were made for it to be fixed “on the 13th in Civitavecchia or at the latest on the 14th in Savona". He explained: “Subsequently, maintenance engineers informed the company that they would perform the work on the 14th because the engineer in Civitavecchia was not available due to other work commitments.”
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