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**David M** · 23-01-2012, 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Thanks…. Very good article

From this report Master was on his Cell phone chatting with his retired colleague while making such a tight maneuver right up to point of impact……

This will have consequences about banning cell phones on commercial bridges…. which I am totally in favor of

Why not yachties as well?

What the cruise industry might need is an overhaul of how the officers and crew are hired and trained.

Bash · 23-01-2012, 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy

I know nutmeg in large doses can have some effects, but I figure as long as I can still taste the rum, I haven't ground too much into the sundowner.

Oh gosh. No. No no no no no!

A tiny bit of nutmeg goes a long way.

Respect the rum.

Pelagic · 23-01-2012, 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by David M

Why not yachties as well?

What the cruise industry might need is an overhaul of how the officers and crew are hired and trained.

Hi David,
I think there is a big difference between a guy in a small highly maneuverable boat that does close quarter work mostly by eyeball having a cell phone handy, versus a behemoth of a ship that requires multilateral watch-keeping and posted lookouts.

A ship that size needs to preplan, calculate and monitor W/O (wheel-over) position based on Advance/Transfer data for given ship, at given speed, while monitoring for fixed and variable errors from an array of electronic navigational devices that can also be affected by a transmitting cell phone.

I agree, but I think the Industry safety overhaul should begin with very defined Agency and Company approved Standing Orders promoting safe practices on board. Everything from fly-bys to food hygiene… (and personal phones)

From experience, I find good Masters, Crew and Officers have no problem following clear concise operational orders, provided it is independently monitored and reinforced by the Companies standing orders and controlling Agencies.

When Masters are encouraged to “thrill” passengers, it is too easy for the cowboy attitude that this master demonstrated, to infect the crew, which would negate any safety training they may have received prior to joining a badly managed ship.

Basically real training takes place on board

**sarafina** · 23-01-2012, 20:06

And sadly, no matter how excellent the training programs are... in the end you can NOT anticipate exactly how people are going to cope under pressure.

This guy captained for years. Did the job well it sounds like. Met all the requirements thus far. And then hit his Waterloo. and discover that what he thought were brass ones were in fact Papier-mâché...

The peter principal in brutal action. Or maybe Darwin trying to weigh in...

chala · 23-01-2012, 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy

Checking the depth sounder would've sufficed.

May be, using the red AIS track, the ship came from a 100m plus depth at 16kts expecting 37m depth at 0.163 nm (302m) from the 100m contour. The 37m depth been 0.010nm (18.52m) wide. At 16kts the ship travel at 8.231meter/second it will have taken 2.25second to pass the 37m depths. To not miss that depth, the sounder would have required full attention.
Bringing the track further inshore in such a way that the ship collide with the charted depth, the distance from the 50m contour to 8.4m is 0.063nm (116.67m) and it will have taken 14.17 seconds.
Depending on the location of the transducer, it is possible than the transducer may have read a fair depth when the boat impacted.

**David M** · 23-01-2012, 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Hi David,
I think there is a big difference between a guy in a small highly maneuverable boat that does close quarter work mostly by eyeball having a cell phone handy, versus a behemoth of a ship that requires multilateral watch-keeping and posted lookouts.

A ship that size needs to preplan, calculate and monitor W/O (wheel-over) position based on Advance/Transfer data for given ship, at given speed, while monitoring for fixed and variable errors from an array of electronic navigational devices that can also be affected by a transmitting cell phone.

I agree, but I think the Industry safety overhaul should begin with very defined Agency and Company approved Standing Orders promoting safe practices on board. Everything from fly-bys to food hygiene… (and personal phones)

From experience, I find good Masters, Crew and Officers have no problem following clear concise operational orders, provided it is independently monitored and reinforced by the Companies standing orders and controlling Agencies.

When Masters are encouraged to “thrill” passengers, it is too easy for the cowboy attitude that this master demonstrated, to infect the crew, which would negate any safety training they may have received prior to joining a badly managed ship.

Basically real training takes place on board

At times in my line of work I absolutely need to use the cellphone when I am underway and in charge of the boat. Its not a ship of course but it is a commercial boat. I just won't dial out if it is not a good time for it nor answer the phone if it is not a safe thing to do either.

I don't know if a blanket policy of banning cellphones at all times would make sense. There are times where there is little to nothing happening and then there are times that requires the captains undvided attention. I think common sense should rule when it is okay to be on the phone and when it is potentially dangerous. We can't of course do that with cars because in a split second one could get into an accident. This is not the case with ships. With large vessels situations like what happened with the Concordia are more gradual.

It is something that might be better if the company makes the policy rather than it becoming yet one more inflexible, potentially irrational law (at times) that we have to live with.

I have seen boaters do dumb things as well through inattentention. But I still would not ban their use of a cell phone. It's really difficult to legislate cures for lack common sense.

Pelagic · 23-01-2012, 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarafina

And sadly, no matter how excellent the training programs are... in the end you can NOT anticipate exactly how people are going to cope under pressure.

This guy captained for years. Did the job well it sounds like. Met all the requirements thus far. And then hit his Waterloo. and discover that what he thought were brass ones were in fact Papier-mâché...

The peter principal in brutal action. Or maybe Darwin trying to weigh in...

I agree, this guy knew within seconds that his personal actions had just caused one of his worst nightmare scenarios and he went into deadly denial and inaction.

He was probably a very politic “Company man”… who looked for ways to impress.

The intent of industry controls is to prevent those pressure scenarios from ever happening due to human ambition or ego.

Also, if they do…. There should have been a mechanism in place for him to be relieved of command

**sarafina** · 23-01-2012, 20:40

He was, eventually, by another Costa Captain who was traveling aboard. The second captain was supported by all but one crew member and he is the one who sounded the general alarm. Might have been he who sent in the mayday as well, I can't remember off hand.

deckofficer · 23-01-2012, 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarafina

He was, eventually, by another Costa Captain who was traveling aboard. The second captain was supported by all but one crew member and he is the one who sounded the general alarm. Might have been he who sent in the mayday as well, I can't remember off hand.

They sure have plenty of speculations over on CC.

Pelagic · 23-01-2012, 21:00

No question David, personal mobile phones are now indispensable to everyone in their daily lives and common sense should…. but does not prevail.

So certain situations need to have specific no-use controls to underline the dangers.

Underway, Heavy Airlines, Bridges of Passenger and Cargo ships over a certain tonnage should prohibit personal mobile phones. (Not ship communications)

These need to be law not simply policy.

On a SY we have specific ship cell phones that feed thru the PABX system that is logged for company business. No private I-phones on the Bridge.

Lagoon4us · 23-01-2012, 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by IslandHopper

Hi Nick

You want to put up the link to that please as i cannot find anything that deviates from his initial report that he was using the ships “tourist navigation system”....

All piloting of ships i thought was done by eye and depth soundings??? Am i wrong???
As close as he was to land you would think piloting protocol would be in order??

I realise he wasn't under a pilot however what is the difference when this close?

Cheers all.....