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Old 23-01-2012, 08:42   #646
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
The captain has stated he was driving the ship manually by sight and ordered a turn to late. ( he actually saw the foam on the rocks. There is no evidence that any of the factors you spelled out had any bearing. The Concordia accident is not germane to the issue of electronics and complacency
Dave
It has been reported that the captain has stated…..Are the rocks supposed to be underwater? Is the damage made to the hull below the water line as pointed out
by a member? No evidence yet. Also it has been reported some engines problem and an explanation: Magnetic interference.
More information’s.

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Originally Posted by Pblais View Post
The scenario more possible is the US will turn it off / enable selective availability.
The Fall of TWA 800: The Possibility of Electromagnetic Interference

It has been reports of boat electronics been affected by navy HIRF and I can tell you that each time the navy visited the town you could reset all the electronics time clocks in town. May be a prank but a dangerous prank. Of course asking the captain to take the blame is the easy way off. Lusitania revisited.

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Now, just send a letter to the Navy ask them for specifics about how the GPS satellites are hardened and against what threats. You'll find a whole new crew of dockhands in blue serge suits cleaning your mooring lines, inspecting you bilge, running all sorts of tasks in your immediate area.<G>
Another pearl.
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Old 23-01-2012, 08:44   #647
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

I blame alien abduction myself

Dave
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Old 23-01-2012, 08:50   #648
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Originally Posted by xymotic View Post
Sorry, but no. The accident was caused by going too close to a land mass, on purpose, to show off.

If it's an uncharted rock, well I guess one might expect such a rock close to shore, right next to a bunch of other rocks.
If it's an error in chart datum, well, I guess keeping 1/2 mile off would have ensured that such an error was negligible.

I trust my GPS, but trust and abject stupidity are two completely different things. I don't go 11 knots right next to a rock, no matter how much I 'trust' the GPS.

We've had numerous reports that those rocks have been accurately charted for over 200 years. So why would a GPS suddenly have it wrong after having it right beore?

I have a chart plotter. I don't use it in waters I'm very familiar with. I think he was sure of what he was doing and ignored all the info he had about the local waters.
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Old 23-01-2012, 08:57   #649
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I dont think this is fair criticism of the captain. We will see what transpires, how much knowledge or pressure the Company put him under, whether this was standard practice doing such close flybys,

As to his abandoning ship, there are several conflicting stories as to when he left. Its not looking good for him, but I dont think we such degenerate in mud slinging.

Dave

Well, no one here is talking to the media, or the captain's family and friends. It's NEWS. Even slander and libel laws agree that once you have the news' spotlight on you, it's OK for other people to talk about it.

So we talk about this, and we think about it, and as more information comes out we compare it to our previous thoughts. What in the world is wrong with that? He was in a life boat early, and now he claims he tripped and "fell" in? Nobody believes that, because he refused to get back on the boat even though the CG had found a way for him to do that.

It's topical to this forum and many people are considering things that others might not have thought of. It caused me to think what I would do to protect any crew or guests on my boat, so for me it's been much more than gossip.

As for his abandoning ship, the stories vary on some points but all point to a captain who was one of the first to get off the boat, affecting the entire chain of command.

The one thing I've seen that is indisputable was the crew member telling people to return to their cabins because nothing was seriously wrong. THAT was criminal, right there. What if we find that the 19 who aren't found yet dutifully returned to their cabins?

There's nothing wrong -- legally or morally -- with wondering about that -- not even out loud.
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Old 23-01-2012, 09:00   #650
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy View Post
Exactly. It's got everything to do with physiology and little to do with assumptions about Protestantism or Englishness. While I could very likely (based on prior experience) operate a boat while on the outside of two glasses of wine, I choose not to, and given the inertia of most keel boats, I would prefer if others did as well.

That aside, I wonder if it customary in such cases to give the captain and/or other bridge crew tests for drugs and alcohol at the earliest shoreside opportunity? It would be fairly automatic in the case of a car or truck accident.

I don't know. That could be very inaccurate. If you consume too much alcohol and then have an accident, your blood alcohol level may still be rising several hours later. You might not have been legally impaired when the other guy hit you, but by the time you were tested, would test higher. Not that you should have been driving, but that can happen. It pretty much has to be started at the time of the accident. That wasn't going to happen in the Costa incident.
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Old 23-01-2012, 09:18   #651
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I dont think this is fair criticism of the captain. We will see what transpires, how much knowledge or pressure the Company put him under, whether this was standard practice doing such close flybys,

As to his abandoning ship, there are several conflicting stories as to when he left. Its not looking good for him, but I dont think we such degenerate in mud slinging.

Dave
His approaching the original rocks is probably just an attempt to duplicate what those guys in their snot rockets do called drifting.
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Old 23-01-2012, 09:25   #652
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy View Post
Exactly. It's got everything to do with physiology and little to do with assumptions about Protestantism or Englishness. While I could very likely (based on prior experience) operate a boat while on the outside of two glasses of wine, I choose not to, and given the inertia of most keel boats, I would prefer if others did as well.

That aside, I wonder if it customary in such cases to give the captain and/or other bridge crew tests for drugs and alcohol at the earliest shoreside opportunity? It would be fairly automatic in the case of a car or truck accident.
He was tested, negative for alcohol or drugs.
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Old 23-01-2012, 09:35   #653
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Must have been a Italian test seeing as how he was witnessed sharing an entire bottle of wine with the Moldovan girl, and one witness at least described the last drops of the bottle being poured into the Captain's glass . . .

In the USA anyone with a commercial driver's license is allowed to have exactly zero percent alcohol in their blood at any time they are operating any vehicle.
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Old 23-01-2012, 09:49   #654
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

I registered to post at the CruiseCritics forums just so I can comment and ask questions, but they don't like outsiders who even suggest any lifestyle of building or owning their own vessel.

I had some posts deleted because that cruising crowd was offended that a lower class person was questioning the system the same as if I was an immigrant on the Titanic asking to sit next to the Captain during supper.

I won't post there as its a group of people I just cannot find much common interest, I hate crowds, I do NOT like being in a position of being deceived or lied to just to protect the image of the company.

I do not like being looked upon as a walking cash cow for every single hour being milked by food and drinks, having to tip or else. I just don't follow the herd instinct.

And all the attacks upon the Captain can be arguably right, he screwed the pooch, but he was TOLD to grandstand to make a show for more tourism, his actions were condoned, its no wonder they don't want him in a position to tell the truth.

And its also so convenient that the bridge recordings have disappeared.

I will just step right out and admit that I am anti-cruise, especially when I see people constantly being treated just like cattle on these mega ships.

I am not a wealthy person, it must be nice to be able to spend so much money for the very best, life was fortunate for those that are where they are.
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Old 23-01-2012, 09:53   #655
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Originally Posted by ChannelIslander View Post
Must have been a Italian test seeing as how he was witnessed sharing an entire bottle of wine with the Moldovan girl, and one witness at least described the last drops of the bottle being poured into the Captain's glass . . .

In the USA anyone with a commercial driver's license is allowed to have exactly zero percent alcohol in their blood at any time they are operating any vehicle.
As a person who has a CDL in Alaska its true, and I cannot eat muffins or bread with poppy seeds as it will give a positive for drugs.
Its actually pretty hard to keep a CDL if you abuse the rules.
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Old 23-01-2012, 10:05   #656
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

OK - It would seem that the entire media has forgotten the grounding of this cruise ship in the Caribbean a week earlier: Party cruise ship runs aground in Caribbean | Motor boats and power boats news | ybw

Admittedly, the vessel appears undamaged, although there was significant damage to the reef. Whilst the owners of this ship are probably breathing a huge sigh of relief, I do not understand why the media has not stuck its teeth into this previous accident...
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Old 23-01-2012, 10:07   #657
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Been trying to find out what the power plant on the CC is/was.
Far as I can make out she was fitted with 6 x Wartsila 12V46C engines, producing 75,500kW in total.
The vessel had two engine rooms, each with 3 engines
The main propulsion was 2 shafts driven my electric motors, rated at about 21,000kW each, which leaves about 33,000 kW for thrusters and domestics etc
She was fitted with 3 x bow thrusters and 3 x stern thrusters, not sure the power on those, at a guess, about 2000kW each.
These are electric driven, with variable pitch blades operated by hydraulic servo's

There would also have been an emergency geny.
In the event that both engine rooms flooded, that would leave only the emergency geny, enough for emergency lighting and a few other essentials. I would think that there would be no power for thrusters.

You may remember the fire on the Carnival Splendour, a newer and similar design to the Concordia class. A crank case fire on the No 5 engine left the vessel with only the emergency geny. Thsi incident has prompted IMO to re-examine power redundancy on passenger vessels
yes,I'm still interested too.There had to be separate DieselGens for these if they were electric.Some think the ship had battery banks+electric starting motors for these to start or used the auxiliary power available from an emrg genset.I still like air-started which doesn't need all the complication and is very common (or used to be).To open the solenoid to start these thruster-gensets and control them too, would still need auxiliary power to relay from bridge....or an heroic stoker on a handheld radio going to the bowthruster compartments,which makes a better story...The details of the accident-in-action are like an unfolding detective story ...Somebody was in the wheelhouse coming up with this idea...it's hard to wait for the official inquiry for the detail!
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Old 23-01-2012, 10:10   #658
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Originally Posted by SaucySailoress View Post
OK - It would seem that the entire media has forgotten the grounding of this cruise ship in the Caribbean a week earlier: Party cruise ship runs aground in Caribbean | Motor boats and power boats news | ybw

Admittedly, the vessel appears undamaged, although there was significant damage to the reef. Whilst the owners of this ship are probably breathing a huge sigh of relief, I do not understand why the media has not stuck its teeth into this previous accident...


Did 40 people die, with more than 15 still unfound? Does there remaining a looming, possibly huge, environmental disaster as well?

In the Bahamas, boat ran aground, boat got off grounding. I can completely see why it wasn't worth extended news coverage.
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Old 23-01-2012, 10:17   #659
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Unless you believe that running aground in a cruise ship is to be expected when your buy your ticket, I'd say that's news.

Personally, when I buy a ticket on a commercial passenger ship, I don't expect it to run aground and I would find it quite newsworthy if it did. There were 2,500 passengers on that ship.
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Old 23-01-2012, 10:19   #660
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Unless you believe that running aground in a cruise ship is to be expected when your buy your ticket, I'd say that's news.

Personally, when I buy a ticket on a commercial passenger ship, I don't expect it to run aground and I would find it quite newsworthy if it did. There were 2,500 passengers on that ship.

It did make the news, or we wouldn't know about it. It's just not newsworthy for extended coverage, especially given the very real drama off Italy.
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