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Old 22-01-2012, 09:29   #571
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Originally Posted by MacG View Post
Astrid did answer that question already: each Wartsila bowthruster has its own powerpack, i.c. powering dieselengine.
This is either hydraulic or through a gearbox - that I do not know.
...sort of.You have to start the diesel,whether bowprops are hydraulic or electric.That's why I said airtanks,assuming they don't have the bowthrusters running all the time.Or are do these start with a battery bank?Or Perhaps they are also generating all the time on this ship as a dual purpose but it's odd,given Diesels have exhausts? ...You can often hear bowthrusters start with airtanks..and you can sometimes tell they are running by the exhaust blown out,I think.
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Old 22-01-2012, 09:40   #572
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Excuse me but if we are to take your second sentence as wisdom, then all of the previous post must be considered BS.

I think we might *wait* to see what the guy has to say before trashing what he said. Just a thought ...
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Old 22-01-2012, 09:40   #573
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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This is one of the very few times that I agree with Geraldo.
I too find it unusual to be in agreement with that fatuous smeghead. Interestingly, he admits that at least some of his own groundings were due to showing off and/or hammered at the helm.

Charming. I'm no prude or teetotaller, but sailing really cut into my drinking, because drinking really cuts into your situational awareness. So I save it for the period following hooking up shore power and setting two springs.

One wonders if the Captain's dinner included the customary litre of vino. Was this guy a sober showoff, or was there aiding and abetting by one of Italy's better known exports? While it's perfectly possible to wreck a ship with zero alcohol involved, one wonders also if it was.
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Old 22-01-2012, 09:40   #574
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

I do not know the design details of vessels like Concordia. I believ she is Diesel-electric, which is on a ship of that size a good idea as you can use the main engines in a multi-purpose role. You can also use the generators to assist in extra power-supply.

When the bow thrusters have their own dieselpropulsion, they are, or could be started by a battery bank i.e. electric. That works up to 2000 kW.
So there are no obstacles to employ those separately from the main propulsion.
Contrary to QM Concordia employs no pods but traditional shaft propulsion.
That explains the bow and stern tubes.

But all this is running behind the facts. You need to have the GAP to know what is possible and what is not.
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Old 22-01-2012, 09:44   #575
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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I too find it unusual to be in agreement with that fatuous smeghead. Interestingly, he admits that at least some of his own groundings were due to showing off and/or hammered at the helm.

Charming. I'm no prude or teetotaller, but sailing really cut into my drinking, because drinking really cuts into your situational awareness. So I save it for the period following hooking up shore power and setting two springs.

One wonders if the Captain's dinner included the customary litre of vino. Was this guy a sober showoff, or was there aiding and abetting by one of Italy's better known exports? While it's perfectly possible to wreck a ship with zero alcohol involved, one wonders also if it was.

I have a strict rule on my boat -- NO drinking while under way. Once we're anchored or docked, if I had someone aboard who over-indulged, he or she would be off the boat as soon as I could arrange it. It's extremely dangerous while trying to sail, but even tied to a dock in a protected marina, moving around a boat is an inherently dangerous thing.

I don't want my insurance to have to pay because some idiot couldn't hold his beer. In my opinion, if I let someone stay on the boat after becoming alcohol impaired, I'm complicit.
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Old 22-01-2012, 09:49   #576
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
I have a strict rule on my boat -- NO drinking while under way. Once we're anchored or docked, if I had someone aboard who over-indulged, he or she would be off the boat as soon as I could arrange it. It's extremely dangerous while trying to sail, but even tied to a dock in a protected marina, moving around a boat is an inherently dangerous thing.

I don't want my insurance to have to pay because some idiot couldn't hold his beer. In my opinion, if I let someone stay on the boat after becoming alcohol impaired, I'm complicit.
like restaurant's cruise ships make large revenues from their bar's and the sale of alcohol,that's how they can offer berths for as little as $40 a night!
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Old 22-01-2012, 09:54   #577
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

...so when did the main engines go down?The animations look like the ship was coasting the whole distance from the rock. I'm speculating the throttles were pulled back immediate to impact ...anyways the ship lost electrics soon after and Engine control out of action due to that or something else..Then some thinking going on up there while coasting to a stop.Then thrusters used,according to the ais animations..so a stoker has to go forward to start them?
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Old 22-01-2012, 09:57   #578
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
I have a strict rule on my boat -- NO drinking while under way. Once we're anchored or docked, if I had someone aboard who over-indulged, he or she would be off the boat as soon as I could arrange it. It's extremely dangerous while trying to sail, but even tied to a dock in a protected marina, moving around a boat is an inherently dangerous thing.

I don't want my insurance to have to pay because some idiot couldn't hold his beer. In my opinion, if I let someone stay on the boat after becoming alcohol impaired, I'm complicit.
Well, I am fairly particular about whom I have aboard in the first place. People with either capacity or abuse issues aren't likely to be there in the first place.

I agree with you on general principles, however. Although, and somewhat ironically, I don't drive cars, I ask myself "would you do this operating a car?" If the answer's no, I have guidance.

That viewpoint seems in the minority at times, however. I do get waved at a lot with fists holding beercans, it seems.
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Old 22-01-2012, 10:06   #579
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Originally Posted by HappySeagull View Post
...so when did the main engines go down?The animations look like the ship was coasting the whole distance from the rock. I'm speculating the throttles were pulled back immediate to impact ...anyways the ship lost electrics soon after and Engine control out of action due to that or something else..Then some thinking going on up there while coasting to a stop.Then thrusters used,according to the ais animations..so a stoker has to go forward to start them?
No, if the thrusters are diesel powered they can be started from the bridge. And of course can be started at the diesel generator.
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Old 22-01-2012, 10:09   #580
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Because NO safety drill had been performed with these 4000 guests and replacement crew it was imperative that maximum time be allowed to Muster, so that action should have ordered without delay. (Immediately after impact by the watch keeper)


Is there any record as to when the General Alarm was officially sounded?

How long after the collision?
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Are you sure of the number?
I agree that the Captain in all likelihood increased the final death count through his mismanagement of the event.

The majority of the passengers however, HAD had the routine safety drill.

This cruise was an unusual itinerary. It picked up and dropped off passengers at each port. Drills were held within 24 houers of each embarkation.

The only passengers who had not had the drill were those who joined the cruise in Civitavecchia.

I didn't go review the information again but my recall is it was over an hour before the general alarm was sounded.

It is clear from videos that the passengers were lied to. It is not clear if the crew doing the lying knew the actual situation or not. But one very alarming video shows that passengers had gathered at a life boat to board but were instructed by a woman on the crew that the "electrical emergency" had been been dealt with and would they all please return to their cabins quietly....

This thing was a giant charlie/foxtrot from beginning to end.
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Old 22-01-2012, 10:14   #581
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Recent report says the captain called the help desk at corporate headquarters reporting the incident. No way 1 guy is the only one responsible he is being thrown to the wolves. Maybe he cracked after grounding. Maybe he was put on hold while someone at a terminal was googeling the procedures for "put a big hole in my ship what next?" Probably got an incident number and they were going to call him back.
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Old 22-01-2012, 10:34   #582
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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This is either hydraulic or through a gearbox - that I do not know.
The thrusters are hydraulic with reversible pitch propellors situated in thruster tunnels so they can be used for either side. Starting is normally done at the bridge along with the other controls for them.
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Old 22-01-2012, 11:03   #583
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

This article has the transcripts, translated, of the hearing on Tuesday;

Francesco Schettino: Court Calls Concordia Captain 'Incompetent' [Full Transcript]
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Old 22-01-2012, 11:15   #584
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Satellite photos from space of the Costa Concordia.
Really puts into perspective how BIG that ship was.

Spaceflight Now | Breaking News | Satellite spies cruise ship tragedy from space

-deneen
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Old 22-01-2012, 11:26   #585
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

As for the salvage effort, I suspect that they will not start anything until the rescue operation is officially terminated. There is just too much risk of something untoward happening if they start pumping fuel out of tanks. While they plan on opening up vents at the lowest point to let seawater in and float the fuel out of the top vent, too many things can go wrong. The ship is indeed sitting on a slope, and every change in ballasting causes her to bounce a bit, and slowly work down the slope. Now if she happens to have her port side bilge against a small rock spur, 115,000 tons of steel bouncing ever so slightly may well wear away that spur, or cause it to break off. Then the ship will start to slide and go under completely. This is a particularly nasty place to do salvage work because of that underwater topography. Imagine if they seal the leaks, start to pump her out and she starts to move farther from shore, and then springs a few new leaks.
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