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Old 21-01-2012, 18:32   #526
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Originally Posted by St. Elsewhere View Post
Geraldo Rivera, who has been a sailor for many years, will be covering the Costa Concordia story tonight on Geraldo At Large, FoxNews, 10 pm Eastern time, and it will rerun four hours later. And, it will be repeated again at those times on Sunday.

Here is his somewhat bombastic preview of his opinions of the events:
"Having run aground literally scores of times in dozens of countries over the last half century, I know that mistakes happen at sea. But aside from the old days, before electronic navigation made sailing safely a no brainer, every time I’ve hit bottom since has been because I wasn’t paying attention to where my vessel was at the time; or, importantly, I was in a state of altered consciousness (i.e., drunk or recklessly showboating).

There is simply no excuse for the captain and crew of a modern vessel to smash into a prominent rock that is certainly on the both the electronic and paper charts the Costa Concordia is legally required to have on her bridge. No excuses. No explanations. There are no uncharted rocks of the size that vessel hit in the Mediterranean Sea. Those waters off the coast of Tuscany have been precisely marked for two hundred years at least.

That bum of a captain and his accomplices were recklessly showboating. Worse, they were stupid about it. How dare they drive that gigantic ship around like it was a flashy sports car they wanted to parade for the cute girls on the shore. And after the disaster, worst of all, to leave the stricken ship before all of the passengers are safely ashore is a black mark that stains the ancient and noble seafaring tradition of the Italy. They are cowards and traitors to their country and to the memory of every seafarer who has sacrificed himself to save his passengers and crew. The murderer should have gone down with the ship and passengers he so blithely wrecked."


Posted on Geraldo Rivera's site on Tuesday, January 17th 2012 - 4pm

This is one of the very few times that I agree with Geraldo.
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Old 21-01-2012, 18:38   #527
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

The captain, whether on the bridge or not, is most usually held responsible for the actions of his subordinates. In July, 1934 the battleship USS Arizona collided with and sank a fishing trawler which was being towed by another trawler. While the towing vessel was lighted, the vessel being towed was not. The collision occurred at about 0220 hours. Captain Milne, though not on the bridge at the time of the collision, rushed to the bridge and ordered life saving measures initiated and directed operations. two of the fishermen crew were lost but the others were rescued. The collision occurred at Cape Flattery and the Arizona was subsequently ordered into Seattle for a court of inquiry. The inquiry recommended that Captain Milne stand before a court martial and official proceedings were begun in October of that year. Milne was put under arrest and confined to his quarters aboard the Arizona while the XO assumed temporary command of the battleship. The finding of the court was that Milne was guilty of 'culpable inefficiency in the performance of his duty.' He was sentenced to lose three seniorty points in his rank of captain. While a lenient sentence, it was a blot on his record and he never made admiral nor commanded another ship before his retirement.
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Old 21-01-2012, 18:52   #528
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Originally Posted by Cotemar View Post
The key words here.
who stated he was not and claimed to be an eye witness.
That's why I'm asking if anyone else saw the broadcast. Last night, ABC's 20/20.

She was a dark haired woman and claimed she saw the Captain at dinner, not on the bridge. A crewman came up to him, whispered in his ear, and they rushed off. She was very adamant about it.

I went to ABC's 20/20 website, and the show and clips are there but when you try to watch them it says "media clip not found"....wonder if they were pulled for some reason or other?
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Old 21-01-2012, 19:01   #529
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Im being quite until I know what happened. I am assuming there are some belts and suspenders that keep ones cruise ship from screwing up this bad. there are more people with pants around the ankles then the captain in this case..
having sailed small boats for years i am Leary of my own judgment and check myself constantly. My mantra constant vigilance is serenity. Small craft sailing is very different then handling these massive ships. Even then I have screwed a pooch a few times. By some grace Im still sailing after all those circumstances played out.A few times I was effing lucky. Course i dont usually have a navigator a slew of mates and a corporation behind me. sometimes its just me. Me and vigilance and preparation.Yep I have a raft dink and epirb. mostly for those that are occasionally aboard. Tad intersting how the life boat preparation expectation changes for a cruise ship. Yes thats confrontational. Argue about having this gear on a small vessel but its expected on a large one. Plus one for having safety gear aboard if you have passengers children etc.....Use it better then this liner did.
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Old 21-01-2012, 21:18   #530
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Originally Posted by David M View Post
From one of those pictures it is pretty obvious the rock dragged along the hull until it broke off. That rock flooded the ship and not something else.

Somebody should put the rock in front of the closest maritime museum as an exhibit, paint marks included.

Actually when you look closely at the damage, it backs up that assessment by Gcaptain. He was making the turn away from the rock and the stern slewed into it. The damage is light at the front, getting gradually deeper until the rock broke of deep in the hull.
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Old 21-01-2012, 22:00   #531
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Originally Posted by nigel1 View Post
Pretty sobering reading, and for the courts etc to make such a statement there must be some damming evidence against him, which we the public have not seem, i.e. the VDR data, plus witness statements from mates and engineers.

One thing I think he may have got a little bit right was the decision to hold off on sounding the General Alarm, but get the boats down to the embarkation deck before the muster (if indeed that was his decision)
I cannot imagine the scenes of chaos in trying to prepare a coupe of dozen boats with 3000+ frightened people in attendance.
As you said, normally the preliminary report is pretty neutral because of expected litigation. This was damming!

I agree, there are times when the Master should withhold safety concerns to avoid panic, but I don’t believe this was one of them!

On the Bridge, they knew immediately by their proximity to the islands, that they had hit something hard enough to cause a blackout and NUC.

The severe collision shudder and blackout would have told every experienced hand on board that a major event had happened and many would have started to automatically get into Muster mode, preparing for the expected General Alarm.

Safety equipment lockers would be opened and checked as a precaution. Every passenger would have been watching the senior crew’s actions with mounting fear and concern.

Because NO safety drill had been performed with these 4000 guests and replacement crew it was imperative that maximum time be allowed to Muster, so that action should have ordered without delay. (Immediately after impact by the watch keeper)

They should have been asked to calmly go to their muster station right away as a precaution and safety drill, so as to be familiarized with station procedures and multi lingual instructions from the Crew.

Instead the Master mislead both his crew and passengers to the point where some crew were telling pax to go back to their cabins and no head count was being done.

The Master by his mismanagement immediately created an atmosphere of confusion and mistrust instead of being the calming voice to alert his passengers and crew to a very dynamic situation which started with a NUC and would soon become a "Prepare to" Abandon Ship scenario within 10 minutes from impact.

His delay in sounding the GA probably cost the lives of those found dead or still missing!

Is there any record as to when the General Alarm was officially sounded?

How long after the collision?
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Old 21-01-2012, 23:04   #532
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

All these facts are known, however not made public. Fishing after known facts is rather a bit useless.
All facts are known, the Captain already charged and the search for bodies still in progress. Evidence of where Concordia hit the rocks at Le Scole is more than abundantly available. And demonstrable.

Other items are less clear: how come that all bodies found were in the stern part of the ship? Is that section of the ship a major deathtrap?

Concordia starts to leak fueloil. Why waiting to clear the holds? Waiting for the massive spill in favor of the political agenda? Are there any political games played in the background of this disaster?
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Old 21-01-2012, 23:27   #533
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

The report was damming because the known facts are damming. The ship was deliberately diverted from the planned route too close to known hazards and became the victim of that decision. The know actions and statements of the captain from that point raise more questions than answers. The recording of conversation with the coast guard and other witnesses which are known do noting to support the captains position. His ship is laying damaged (possibly total wrecked threatening the environment. AND most importantly there are the people who are know to have died (or are missing presumed dead) as a result of the actions of the captain and or those under his command.

The argument has been made that he did the right thing in not mustering the passengers. Sorry but BS, you are on a ships, big bang, sudden changes in direction, lights go out, ship begins to list and no plan put into place. How would that reduce the level of panic? As for not immediately notifying CG that there had been an impact, even if it was said that the extent of damage was not known could have potential saved lives. My best wishes go out to those who have lost friends and family members, and those who have or continue to risk their lives as a result of conduct of the captain and others.
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Old 21-01-2012, 23:40   #534
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Originally Posted by MacG View Post
All these facts are known, however not made public. Fishing after known facts is rather a bit useless.
All facts are known, the Captain already charged and the search for bodies still in progress. Evidence of where Concordia hit the rocks at Le Scole is more than abundantly available. And demonstrable.

Other items are less clear: how come that all bodies found were in the stern part of the ship? Is that section of the ship a major deathtrap?

Concordia starts to leak fueloil. Why waiting to clear the holds? Waiting for the massive spill in favor of the political agenda? Are there any political games played in the background of this disaster?
I would think that salvage can't begin until contracts are drawen up and insurance and liablity issues resolved. This may take several companies from different countries agreeing with intensive media attention.

I'd also ask if more than one insurance company is involved with the ships insurance, usually with large ships and planes, several insurance companies each insure a precentage to minimize individual loss. If so this would compound the process of arranging salvage.
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Old 21-01-2012, 23:43   #535
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Because NO safety drill had been performed with these 4000 guests and replacement crew
Are you sure of the number?
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Old 22-01-2012, 00:18   #536
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

@JohnA

Correct: mostly 1 insurer and a number of underwriters cooperating as "the underwriter" - to spread risk.
In between are the Islanders who are afraid for a massive oilspill so close to their shore. No serious measurements are taken yet.
Knowing the Italian attitude it can take weeks before some action is taken.
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Old 22-01-2012, 00:25   #537
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Are you sure of the number?
No.... I am mistaken..... I think that number includes pax + crew.

With the majority of the crew in the catering and hotel department, they are still dependent on guidance during emergencies, so the Muster Station order should have been given right away..... which is my key point
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Old 22-01-2012, 00:28   #538
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

That is a correct mirror of the situation at MV Concordia.
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Old 22-01-2012, 00:35   #539
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Other items are less clear: how come that all bodies found were in the stern part of the ship? Is that section of the ship a major deathtrap?
It may be that once the watertight doors have been operated the only escape is by the way of small vertical ladders, a demanding climb. Access to staircases or lifts is cut out. Cruise Ship does not seem to provide cabins for passengers in the lowest decks but members of the crew may have accommodation there. Another decision for a captain to take: to trap or not to trap people.
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Old 22-01-2012, 00:36   #540
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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I would think that salvage can't begin until contracts are drawen up and insurance and liablity issues resolved. This may take several companies from different countries agreeing with intensive media attention.

I'd also ask if more than one insurance company is involved with the ships insurance, usually with large ships and planes, several insurance companies each insure a precentage to minimize individual loss. If so this would compound the process of arranging salvage.
I am not sure about Italian Law re: “Receiver of Wrecks” but I would think the Italian Agencies as the controlling body on scene would have the right to order the closest resources immediately on scene to set up for fuel removal and environmental protection… and be dammed with delays in the negotiations!


Otherwise they are not doing their job.
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