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Old 19-01-2012, 03:59   #391
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Originally Posted by deckofficer

Not to mention positive stability is at opposite ends of the spectrum. Nothing is more tender than a cruise ship, not even a RORO. Can't allow the cruise ship patrons to get sea sick from a vessel that has good positive stability, hence a more spirited righting moment.
You've just confused yourself here, a tender ship is one that does easy long rolls. A " spirited righting moment" is actually a less tender vessel. Neither have much to do with seaworthiness.

In fact modern cruise ships are built to very very high standards. All can handle weather well beyond passangers fear limits. They have far better build standards, watertight integrity and safety systems them most ships afloat today, primarily because the classification rules for passangers vessels are strict.

It's common amongst the ill-informed to see such towering vessels as somehow unstable. Nothing could be further from the truth. All the weight is concentrated in the lower decks, the upper decks are mainly air. ( ie cabins)

The fact is almost no cruise ships have been lost to weather. In fact I can't think of one in recent years.

It's arguable that taking the ship into shallow water was not necessarily the right thing to do. Such vessels are designed to sink upright ( in the main) in this case as she settled the keel hit the bottom and she rang out of water and heeled even more.

Dave
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Old 19-01-2012, 04:10   #392
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By the way the infra red video taken by the coastguard is amazing. It shows the ship fully over on her side with people getting off by rope ladder on the high side ( quite a lot of people). Interesting the ship is at a more severe angle and further out of the water ( you can see the bulbous bow quite clearly) she does seem to have slipped down the ledge quite a bit ( paradoxically reducing the heel)

It's crazy to see people being collected by fishing boats from the keel area , must of been scary in the dark. It really was a rescue of two halves with the initial one bring " easy" and the later ones very difficult.

I still wonder if putting the ship in such shallow water was a good idea. My view is it contributed to a very excessive list.

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Old 19-01-2012, 04:19   #393
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Pivotting on the anchor provoked a massive loadshift of water in the hull and brought the ship on it's starboard flank. That possible?
You said yourself that those vessels are designed to sink upright. So it should have landed maximum a meter above the waterline, if we take the local depth
for real.

I do not believe in the sink upright theory. One cannot choose the circumstances of a disaster and a disaster is always a result of cumulation of coinciding calamities.
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Old 19-01-2012, 04:48   #394
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Pivotting on the anchor provoked a massive loadshift of water in the hull and brought the ship on it's starboard flank. That possible?
You said yourself that those vessels are designed to sink upright. So it should have landed maximum a meter above the waterline, if we take the local depth
for real.

I do not believe in the sink upright theory. One cannot choose the circumstances of a disaster and a disaster is always a result of cumulation of coinciding calamities.
There no evidence she pivoted on her anchor. The loylds track of the ship has it doing a reasonable tight turn under power north of the final resting place and then heading for the harbour. They anchored or touched and stopped ( in fact been in the infra red vide I can't see any anchor yet the whole bow is visible)

What I was saying is that I think beaching her it such shallow water was a contributing factor, she in effect fell over ( see the infra red video) that's quite clear to me. The keel touched the bottom and all the water would run to one side and topple her.

I beleive had see been in slightly deeper water she would have heeled less but obviously she would have sunk

Well see what transpires

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Old 19-01-2012, 05:13   #395
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Well I have heard enough about the capitan and the course of the ship etc. on the news.

What I what to hear more about is .................. The Rock!
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Old 19-01-2012, 05:45   #396
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

That rock must weight 200 tons, i know somebody has a formula for estimating mass and that rock must be what at least 30' long?

I think looking at that gouge that there may have been resistance enough on the other side of the hull to make that rock eventually embed itself in the hull with force, in other words the ship went through a "V" shaped trough.

Perhaps on the other side it may be revealed to have a longer gash in the hull. Only its massive inertia of tonnage kept it from stopping quickly.

And if indeed there is the same or worse damage on the other side then I don't realistically see this boat ever coming off the rock in one piece, its keel is busted up at the least. it took a licking and kept on ticking I'll grant it that.
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Old 19-01-2012, 06:13   #397
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

If the ship never comes off the rock in one piece it is because Smit Tak didn't (still doesn't) get the green light to go at it quickly enough. They probably hope it shift and sinks beyond salvage.

These guys will salvage anything at almost any depth. Check their track record ...

ciao!
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Old 19-01-2012, 06:15   #398
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
If the ship never comes off the rock in one piece it is because Smit Tak didn't (still doesn't) get the green light to go at it quickly enough. They probably hope it shift and sinks beyond salvage.

These guys will salvage anything at almost any depth. Check their track record ...

ciao!
Nick.
Yeap, those guys are the rockstars of the salvage industry
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Old 19-01-2012, 06:29   #399
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Yeap, those guys are the rockstars of the salvage industry
They are really cool and from my home city Rotterdam The SkyLift floating cranes used to be docked right under the windows of my office !

I wonder if any salvage descriptions or stories from them have been published. I did read one about that Russian nuclear sub they worked on but don't remember where or how I found that. It's funny to read here how many think they would float it with some airbags attached to the hull. They float these ships by closing it up where needed and forcing the water out with compressed air, making the whole ship one big airbag.

ciao!
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Old 19-01-2012, 06:56   #400
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Heres the lloyds track


The captain has stated that he was navigating by sight and knew the depths well. Yet look how he went closer in the recent track to La Scole, thats what clearly happened.

He is in records now as stating he ordered the turn too late, but in fact there was no turn, he passed La Scole in a straight line
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Old 19-01-2012, 07:09   #401
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Believe me, the only possible place is the outer rocks of Le Scole. It is just like an Iceberg,
it continues in a slope under the waterlevel.

What the motifs are to refuse Smit Salvage the green light is buried in the directors room of Costa Cruises and the Minister of .......... in Rome.

Italian bureaucracy at its full glory.
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Old 19-01-2012, 07:09   #402
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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He is in records now as stating he ordered the turn too late, but in fact there was no turn, he passed La Scole in a straight line
Yes, he ordered the turn away from the rocks too late so that they hit the rocks before a turn could be started... or ordered?!

The bridge voice recordings might not even make this clear because the captain might not have said anything about starting the turn yet while stating he was just about to issue the order...

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Old 19-01-2012, 08:18   #403
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Fox News just reported that the lady the Captain was seen with just prior to the incident was on the Concordia illegally. Mail Online has the information below. If she was on the bridge, was she a distraction? Why was she involved?
"A mystery woman was on the bridge alongside cowardly captain Francesco Schettino when his ship ran aground off an Italian island on Friday night, it emerged today.
The blonde woman is thought to be a 25-year-old Moldovan crew member who has not been properly identified by investigators as she does not appear on any official manifest for the Costa Concordia.
She is believed to be passenger rep Domnica Cemortan, possibly hired without a proper contract, and one theory is that she was on the bridge because Schettino was trying to impress her."

Mystery: This woman, thought to be Moldovan Domnica Cemortan, 25, is believed to have been on the bridge with Schettino when the Costa Concordia crashed

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Old 19-01-2012, 09:27   #404
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Best estimate will make the boat 57m from the 10 meter contour.
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Old 19-01-2012, 09:49   #405
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

A pretty clear case of showmanship over seamanship. Any seaman will tell you to keep well clear of a line of rocks running down into the water, regardless of what the chart says.
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