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Old 15-01-2012, 10:57   #136
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Salvage laws will depend on what Italian salvage laws say or what an Italian judge decides or both. It is not necessarily congruent with international admiralty laws.
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Old 15-01-2012, 11:14   #137
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Salvage laws will depend on what Italian salvage laws say or what an Italian judge decides or both. It is not necessarily congruent with international admiralty laws.
If salvage, many agreements state that arbitration to be undertaken in UK under UK Admiralty law.
This snafu may well turn out to be a day rate wreck removal excercise.
Of course the Italian courts/goverment can step in with regards to what must be done.
Ships flag state will have something to say as well, but I have not looked to see where she is flagged.
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Old 15-01-2012, 11:17   #138
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Its flagged in Italy.
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Old 15-01-2012, 11:19   #139
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

It is in Italian territory....their country, their laws.

Were a ship to wreck on US shores, you can bet the US would be the decision maker on what is to be done.
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Old 15-01-2012, 11:28   #140
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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It is in Italian territory....their country, their laws.

Were a ship to wreck on US shores, you can bet the US would be the decision maker on what is to be done.

Not disputing that David, I'm just saying that salvage awards/payments will be based on whats in the contract.
I doubt if the Italians care two hoots about who pays what and when, so long as the mess is cleared up.
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Old 15-01-2012, 12:44   #141
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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A similar event happened in the 80ís with a northbound cruise ship going thru Seymour narrows (Vancouver Island).
Had a similar one in Jersey in the mid 90's - small passenger fast ferry (80'? - 300? PAssengers and crew onboard) took a shortcut between the Lighthouse and the shore, apparently to show off (to passengers and crew / self?).......had done it before. Perfectly doable, just not easy......the tricky bit not going over the causeway - it's the exit afterwards .

Ferry didn't sink and no one died (more luck than judgement) as was an at sea evacuation, unfortunately seems that the incident happened pre-internet .....Ferry didn't sink completely and was later towed onto a beach. Some write up on the incident.

Edmund BLAMPIED



Tide out - lighthouse joined to dryland!



I don't think that is high tide, in any event on a spring tide those small heads would be covered - but a helluva current to cope with.


And only last year the Local Govt owned Tug (over here that is our Navy! - does a few more things than simply Tugging boats) hit a rock doing something similar elsewhere.............under 1/2 a mile outside the harbour :-



Didn't sink though


IMO the Masters of the big ships are just as capable of doing dumb stuff as the rest of us .......and if it can be done badly, someone will.......
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Old 15-01-2012, 12:45   #142
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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I'd first guess it that this is a text book case of plotting a course between two waypoints without checking for intervening hazards. The course they were on is a straight line to a point just outside Port Giglio, right where one would place an approach waypoint - except for the huge intervening outcropping/peninsula. I'd guess someone set the course/route by connecting the dots between waypoints, then wasn't paying attention until they found themselves on top of the outcropping. The last turn indicates an attempt to run through the narrow passage, but obviously they didn't make it.
Firstly we have no AIS trace that shows that the boat ran through Le Scole. ( and i dont think she'd have made it) The Gemitrack one cant be verified. There is no doubt that the earlier turn to port is very strange and they definitely closed on the island. Note this is a run this ship does every week, ie up between Monte Argentario and Giglio. The captain then ran the ship aground near the port.
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Old 15-01-2012, 12:49   #143
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

The VDR includes a recording of bridge conversations. Hopefully the Italians will not cover it up. I can already predict that the bridge conversation will be about women, but at some point will include the Italian version of 'holy *!@#$%'. All the talk about electrical failures is a smokescreen, and will soon go the way of the previous 'it hit an uncharted rock', which was easily disproved by the AIS track.
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Old 15-01-2012, 14:05   #144
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Firstly we have no AIS trace that shows that the boat ran through Le Scole. ( and i dont think she'd have made it) The Gemitrack one cant be verified.
That Gemitrak pic is hogwash as far as i am concerned, i don't beleive they went through there at all....
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Old 15-01-2012, 14:13   #145
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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IMO the Masters of the big ships are just as capable of doing dumb stuff as the rest of us .......and if it can be done badly, someone will.......
Aint that the truth, there but for the grace of god and all that
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Old 15-01-2012, 14:31   #146
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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The VDR includes a recording of bridge conversations. Hopefully the Italians will not cover it up. I can already predict that the bridge conversation will be about women, but at some point will include the Italian version of 'holy *!@#$%'. All the talk about electrical failures is a smokescreen, and will soon go the way of the previous 'it hit an uncharted rock', which was easily disproved by the AIS track.
Does anyone know if the VDR will show the status of the generators, steering systems, navigation equipment, comm equipment, etc.? It will be interesting to learn if the VDR's are as complete as their aviation counter parts.
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Old 15-01-2012, 14:39   #147
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Originally Posted by St. Elsewhere View Post
Does anyone know if the VDR will show the status of the generators, steering systems, navigation equipment, comm equipment, etc.? It will be interesting to learn if the VDR's are as complete as their aviation counter parts.
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"Performance standards for VDRs were adopted in 1997 and give details on data to be recorded and VDR specifications. They state that the VDR should continuously maintain sequential records of preselected data items relating to status and output of the ship's equipment and command and control of the ship. The VDR should be installed in a protective capsule that is brightly coloured and fitted with an appropriate device to aid location. It should be entirely automatic in normal operation."
Short answer, yes.....
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Old 15-01-2012, 14:50   #148
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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A 38m wide boat in a 37m wide passage? Not unless they were trying to beach it there... or didnt know how wide it was and were desperate...
The five-meter contour shows 57.412 m.
The forward stabiliser is still extended and undamaged.
The AIS or what it is, show a turn to the sea half way.
The damage is toward the stern.
The other side of the ship may also be damaged.

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The VDR includes a recording of bridge conversations. Hopefully the Italians will not cover it up. I can already predict that the bridge conversation will be about women, but at some point will include the Italian version of 'holy *!@#$%'. All the talk about electrical failures is a smokescreen, and will soon go the way of the previous 'it hit an uncharted rock', which was easily disproved by the AIS track.
I have been all around the world with Italian sea captains they used to be serious and elegant let we be the same.
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Old 15-01-2012, 14:50   #149
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Wonder if any shore based witnesses? I haven't been following it much on news but surely there must have been a terrified fisherman around that area?
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Old 15-01-2012, 15:04   #150
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Crew was Italian.. no beer.. but maybe "Here hold my wine"...
Ok, my Sicilian Father taught me to drive and my Sicilian Uncles all are mariners. And they are all bug nuts when it comes to things that go VROOM. Just sayin...

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A 38m wide boat in a 37m wide passage? Not unless they were trying to beach it there... or didnt know how wide it was and were desperate...
Practicing for a Panamax gig?

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\
Ships flag state will have something to say as well, but I have not looked to see where she is flagged.
Italian Officers and Flag (see above ; -)

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All the talk about electrical failures is a smokescreen, and will soon go the way of the previous 'it hit an uncharted rock', which was easily disproved by the AIS track.
Yep. pretty much what I thought as I listened to it unfold... I bet they hit the rock, lost the power and drove it onto the bank to keep from sinking right there.
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