Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 08-10-2010, 04:40   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 4
Crew Nationality Flag and Other Bits of Etiquette

Hello all. Good to meet you!

I am about to embark on my first bareboat charter (Highland 35 motor cruiser) in the Cote D'Azur. The boat is obviously French registered, so will fly the French colours.

I thought though that I'd like to fly a flag that denoted that the crew were Brits. I guess it's the reverse of a courtesy flag.

Is this a done thing? Is it sensible? And if so, what should I fly? Union Jack or Red Ensign?

And whilst I'm at it - has anyone any top etiquette tips on cruising? Things that tick them off about other boaters, or generally "the thing they never tell you in the books" - would be great to hear your stories!

Cheers,
Paul
__________________

__________________
poleydee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2010, 04:59   #2
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Yes!! Put your crew flag, or flags, up the port side flag halyard.
They can be good fun and you can include you club flags, company flag (if its that sort of charter), whatever you like, really
We sometimes have a flag with a Kangaroo on it.

By the way, you are correct to ensure you keep the French Flag flying while you are on Charter.
I heard a recent story that the French fined a boat 2,000 Eur because the Charterers whipped off the French flag and put up their own duster!

The charterers were just having fun, but the French were not impressed.
__________________

__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2010, 06:02   #3
Registered User
 
Zanshin's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Caribbean
Boat: Jeanneau 57
Posts: 1,621
Flag protocol would have you fly your own flag(s) on the port side and I've heard that it is good form to fly the starboard side courtesy flag higher than any on the port side.
The French can be finicky, friends of mine whose kids put up a Jolly Roger while anchored in St. Martin were (very politely) asked to remove it by the French Gendarmerie patrolling the anchorage.
__________________
-Zanshin (SV Zanshin)
Zanshin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2010, 06:27   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Boat: Roaring Girl: Maxi 120 ketch, 12 long
Posts: 399
We fly our courtesy ensign (maritime flag of the nation in which we are sailing) on our starboard halyard, with the Euro ensign underneath it.

On the port side we fly, in descending order, our club burgee (the UK Cruising Association), then a kiwi ensign for Pip, then a (large) rainbow flag for the lesbian nation, and then any other flags which take our fancy - last summer we had a French eco-geste flag for one of their environmental campaigns.

We get lots of questions which makes for friendly encounters. OTOH, it can all be misinterpreted. In Toulon (second largest naval base in France), we were watched a lot by men in black with big guns, which cruised in and out of the darsena regularly. When we took the array down, they lost interest.

Even though we can't be seen as a particularly frightening crew, we were
glad to see that they still have some qualms about what they did to the Rainbow Warrior.
__________________
Sarah & Pip
s/v Roaring Girl
www.sailblogs.com/member/roaringgirl
Roaring Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2010, 06:39   #5
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Boat: Custom Van De Stadt 47 Samoa
Posts: 3,753
Hmmm . . . not to be a spoil sport, but there is no proper etiquette for crew flags - as far as "proper etiquette' you should not do it. Flag of registry on stern, and courtesy flag (or q flag when entering) on starboard spreader is the only 'correct' procedure. (and your club burgee or house flag should fly from the masthead).

Back in the day, flag handling was important because it was a key for of communication. You would not have wanted to create any confusion by hoisting flags with no official meaning.

But yes, I know, its done all the time now by charter boats, and it is 'fun', and most of the time no-one official will care.

"has anyone any top etiquette tips on cruising? Things that tick them off about other boaters"

YES - SET AND TEST YOUR ANCHOR. It's amusing afternoon entertainment watching the charter boats try to anchor, but its not so amusing at 2am when they start dragging.
__________________
estarzinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2010, 08:56   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 4
I like it.. good responses. Particularly tips on how not to look like a Greenpeace boat when French Special forces are watching, the incredible range of flags hoisted (and that if you have a multi-cultural, multi-faith, multi-everything crew, you may need more halyards to accommodate...) and the things your kids can do to get you in trouble with the gendarmes!

And yes, anchoring is my biggest fear! Have even booked a day of mooring practice before we go, in which anchoring is going to be my biggest thing! I don't want to be one of those being laughed at, but no doubt will!

Thanks all!
__________________
poleydee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2010, 09:37   #7
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Quote:
And if so, what should I fly? Union Jack or Red Ensign
I suspect you mean the "Union Flag", The "union jack" is a Union flag on a Jack staff, which is the perogative of Her majestys warships. You as a lowly commoner, never get to fly that flag on your boat. Charles I brought in that restriction "upon pain of Our high displeasure" in the 17th century and its remains law to this day.

Dave
__________________
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2010, 09:57   #8
Registered User
 
Misiu's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Bocas del Toro, Panama
Boat: Catalina 30 "Niunia"
Posts: 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanshin View Post
... is good form to fly the starboard side courtesy flag higher than any on the port side.
And the size of your courtesy should be proportional in size to the flag of registry.
__________________
Michał
"The acquisition of the knowledge of navigation has a strange effect on the minds of men." /Jack London/
Misiu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2010, 10:00   #9
Senior Cruiser
 
rebel heart's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,190
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roaring Girl View Post
then a (large) rainbow flag for the lesbian nation
__________________
rebel heart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2010, 10:03   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tortola
Posts: 700
Images: 1
Send a message via Yahoo to bvimatelot Send a message via Skype™ to bvimatelot
Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I suspect you mean the "Union Flag", The "union jack" is a Union flag on a Jack staff, which is the perogative of Her majestys warships. You as a lowly commoner, never get to fly that flag on your boat. Charles I brought in that restriction "upon pain of Our high displeasure" in the 17th century and its remains law to this day.

Dave
Well Done, Dave! I don't consider myself to be all that crusty but correct terminology and correct useage of flags and ensigns is one of the signs of a proficient sailor, I reckon.

(I once pointed out to a snotty young "captain" of a gorgeous yacht in Antigua the terrible mistake he was making in flying the White Ensign. The Owner, being a member of the RYS, would have been entitled, provided he also flew the RYS burgee at the masthead and provided he was onboard, complete with the entitlement warrant. No warrant, No burgee, no owner! This kid had a rather "so what?" attitude until I told him the amount of fine that I, as a Naval Officer, could pretty arbitrarily have had levied. This was a bit of a fib actually as I am on the retired list - but he got the message) Tony
__________________
bvimatelot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-10-2010, 05:50   #11
Registered User
 
Colin Stone's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 4
bvimatelot - even retired you still retain your commission, so you could seize the flag and send it to the Queen. Those EU ensigns are particularly nasty and I am on the look out for someone wearing it as an ensign.

As a Brit, I fly the pilot jack (like a QHM flag without the crest) at the jack staff to denote brits and a blue ensign with the RNSA burgee at the masthead, courtesy flag at stbd outer, DBA burgee at Stbd inner, Noord Brabant flag at port inner (ship made in Brabant Netherlands) and something else at port outer - VNF/drapeau de navigation etc.

This is quite a good UK MoD dit on flags - http://www.luxe-motor-kei.co.uk/docu...andEnsigns.pdf
__________________
Colin Stone
MV KEI
www.luxe-motor-kei.co.uk
Colin Stone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-10-2010, 07:11   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tortola
Posts: 700
Images: 1
Send a message via Yahoo to bvimatelot Send a message via Skype™ to bvimatelot
Ah, Colin - Its a long time since I read QR&AI! I seem to recall that the only ones who had this authority were active list executive branch - so really I had "two invalidations" in that I was a Pusser!

Anyway - if you're over this way, look me up - I'm the HLO here! Tony
__________________
bvimatelot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-10-2010, 09:01   #13
Registered User
 
SvenG's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Mexico heading South
Boat: Ericson 39B - Senta II
Posts: 1,169
I asked this on the rec.sailing news group (yes it was a very log time ago) and finally got a consensus answer that I follow.

The Queen flies the flag of foreign dignitaries under the port spreader while they are on board.



-Sven
__________________
Senta II - http://www.Grenander.com/Senta_II/Blog/Blog.html
1977 Ericson 39B -- Hull # 216
SvenG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-10-2010, 11:15   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tortola
Posts: 700
Images: 1
Send a message via Yahoo to bvimatelot Send a message via Skype™ to bvimatelot
Quote:
Originally Posted by SvenG View Post
I asked this on the rec.sailing news group (yes it was a very log time ago) and finally got a consensus answer that I follow.

The Queen flies the flag of foreign dignitaries under the port spreader while they are on board.



-Sven
Not much else to say, really!!
__________________
bvimatelot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-10-2010, 02:37   #15
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
I think one should consider exactly why you want to fly your own national flag in someone else's back yard - when not the flag of boat registry.

Flags themselves are never important, it's what they represent.

A bit of fun?.......or a display of ignorance.............marking and claiming territory.............a claim to superiority over the locals?...........or a challenge to them?

I would suggest that if not willing to display your family coat of arms onboard (IMO a little bit tacky) that perhaps a house flag would be more appropriate.........
__________________

David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Flag Etiquette Terry Fallis Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 35 28-11-2013 14:36
Another Flag Etiquette Question BubbleHeadMd Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 11 12-01-2010 17:55
Flag Etiquette (Part 2) Pelagic Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 0 24-02-2008 05:47
Flag Etiquette Alan Wheeler Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 0 24-02-2008 01:46
Flag Etiquette While Cruising Sonosailor Other 25 26-07-2005 00:04



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:14.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.