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Old 16-01-2016, 12:16   #61
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Re: COPS - what did they do wrong?

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And for the past twenty years cops in this country, as in the UK, NZ and many other countries are now University trained in something prior to going into the Academies. The days of hiring buffoons are over. I know that's not the case in the US.
Unfortunately UK Policing went rapidly down the Suwannee River, once University Graduates were allowed in, from the early 1960's on.

Policing became so bad so fast, thanks to these incredible morons (and I use that word advisedly) being allowed into Senior positions without having to do the minimum prior qualification period on the beat as a Constable, before being able to seek promotion. They didn't have, and still don't have, the basic comprehension to be able to do the job we employ them to do, properly.

You will not believe how many really good Policemen, including senior Sergeants, quit over it (many higher ranks did too, because all their valuable experience hands on with the job, suddenly became worthless). One example was just a year away from his pension, and his wife convinced him to quit, because he was becoming suicidal over the constant idiocy being imposed 'from above'

I am pleased to say that Ken, a really nice guy, and formerly an excellent Policeman, is still alive.

Careful what you wish for. You just might get it.

PS This hasn't happened to just Policing. It is a very widespread problem.
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Old 16-01-2016, 14:13   #62
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Re: COPS - what did they do wrong?

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Unfortunately UK Policing went rapidly down the Suwannee River, once University Graduates were allowed in, from the early 1960's on.

Policing became so bad so fast, thanks to these incredible morons (and I use that word advisedly) being allowed into Senior positions without having to do the minimum prior qualification period on the beat as a Constable, before being able to seek promotion. They didn't have, and still don't have, the basic comprehension to be able to do the job we employ them to do, properly.

You will not believe how many really good Policemen, including senior Sergeants, quit over it (many higher ranks did too, because all their valuable experience hands on with the job, suddenly became worthless). Onue example was just a year away from his pension, and his wife convinced him to quit, because he was becoming suicidal over the constant idiocy being imposed 'from above'

I am pleased to say that Ken, a really nice guy, and formerly an excellent Policeman, is still alive.

Careful what you wish for. You just might get it.

PS This hasn't happened to just Policing. It is a very widespread problem.
Well, yes, but that's pretty subjective isn't it.

There are people who say the same thing here about the police. Not many, usually older people, ex cops, and of course older people who say 'in my day the local copper would give the young guy a clip under the ear and take him home to his parents' etc.

People said it about nursing when it went professional and required university trained nurses. Older nurses will still say university nurses are better.

University simply means to be further educated. can having more education really be so bad, or is it more to do with an objection to change and new ideas?
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Old 16-01-2016, 14:46   #63
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Re: COPS - what did they do wrong?

From one extreme to the other: https://www.facebook.com/ruyachts/vi...30830/?theater
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Old 16-01-2016, 14:49   #64
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Re: COPS - what did they do wrong?

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I reckon if you were caught towing a trailer without a safety chain fitted, you would definitely get booked. Yes! But that's not what I was referring to now was it��
AFAIK, public boat ramps are part of the road, so the road rules still apply.
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Old 16-01-2016, 15:02   #65
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Re: COPS - what did they do wrong?

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AFAIK, public boat ramps are part of the road, so the road rules still apply.
With that sort of logic, you should be wearing a seat belt whilst putting your boat in the water.

Look, if you can point to anyone, perhaps anyone in the world that has ever been booked for not having their chain attached to their boat trailer whilst putting their boat in, or for not wearing life jackets whilst putting their boat n, then fair enough. You win your very vague point that these cops were acting illegally as well as stupidly
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Old 16-01-2016, 15:22   #66
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Re: COPS - what did they do wrong?

No, you don't have to wear a seatbelt while reversing:


NSW Legislation)))


However, on a public road, towing a trailer that isn't properly hitched to a car, and doesn't have the safety chain on IS illegal.


YOUR point was that the cops in the video didn't break any laws, didn't do anything that would have earned them a ticket here in Aus.


I'm simply questioning the accuracy of that statement.
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Old 16-01-2016, 16:18   #67
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Re: COPS - what did they do wrong?

They should speak with this crew

https://www.facebook.com/ruyachts/vi...8309561630830/
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Old 16-01-2016, 17:31   #68
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Re: COPS - what did they do wrong?

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No, you don't have to wear a seatbelt while reversing?


However, on a public road, towing a trailer that isn't properly hitched to a car, and doesn't have the safety chain on IS illegal. seriously, who is disputing this?


YOUR point was that the cops in the video didn't break any laws, didn't do anything that would have earned them a ticket here in Aus.


I'm simply questioning the accuracy of that statement.
And I stand by that suggestion until someone can point otherwise. And the comment about the seat belts, once they 'reverse' legally, then according to you, when they drive forward to park off the ramp, they will be acting illegally to park the car and trailer. whilst strictly by the letter of the law that is the case, no one is that anal.

I seen absolutely nothing 'illegal' in the video and it's farcical to suggest that members of the public would have been booked for this same scenario.
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Old 16-01-2016, 20:28   #69
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Re: COPS - what did they do wrong?

So what was it you said about twisting what others say?

It was YOU who mentioned being booked for not wearing a seatbelt when launching the boat. I simply pointed out that you're OK to reverse without a seatbelt.

And it's not "according to me" illegal to then drive forward without a seatbelt. It's illegal ACCORDING TO THE LAW.

Has anyone said members of the public would have been booked if they did the same as the video? I certainly haven't.

However, if you made the same mistakes in front of a policeman who was in the right mood, he certainly COULD book you. Because some of what they did BROKE THE LAW.

And to be honest, if you had a couple of tonnes of boat/trailer careering out of control down a boat ramp, especially if it happened to be busy, (not the case in the video.) you SHOULD be booked for it.

YOU said they did nothing illegal in the video, nothing someone could be booked for. You were, in fact, wrong.

Stand by it as much as you like, it's still w-r-o-n-g, wrong.
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Old 16-01-2016, 21:02   #70
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Re: COPS - what did they do wrong?

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......
However, if you made the same mistakes in front of a policeman who was in the right mood, he certainly COULD book you. Because some of what they did BROKE THE LAW.

And to be honest, if you had a couple of tonnes of boat/trailer careering out of control down a boat ramp, especially if it happened to be busy, (not the case in the video.) you SHOULD be booked for it.

YOU said they did nothing illegal in the video, nothing someone could be booked for. You were, in fact, wrong.

Stand by it as much as you like, it's still w-r-o-n-g, wrong.
Warning, entering pedantic mode....

I reckon nobody broke the law because we don't know if the law was broken until either someone was found gulity of an offence or pleaded guilty of an offence (almost the same thing ).

The best we can say is they could be accussed on breaking the law. It doesn't matter if you or I saw the law being broken, we can only say that we accused them of breaking it. Only the legal system can create the fact of the law being broken with either a guilty plea or a finding of guilt by a court of law.
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Old 16-01-2016, 21:28   #71
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Re: COPS - what did they do wrong?

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Warning, entering pedantic mode....

I reckon nobody broke the law because we don't know if the law was broken until either someone was found gulity of an offence or pleaded guilty of an offence (almost the same thing ).

The best we can say is they could be accussed on breaking the law. It doesn't matter if you or I saw the law being broken, we can only say that we accused them of breaking it. Only the legal system can create the fact of the law being broken with either a guilty plea or a finding of guilt by a court of law.
I can only hope you're joking.
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Old 16-01-2016, 21:53   #72
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Re: COPS - what did they do wrong?

I'm curious. What is the university degree required in Aus to become a cop? I never heard of one? Bachelor of law?
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Old 16-01-2016, 21:57   #73
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Re: COPS - what did they do wrong?

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The guys in the boat of the OP just made a silly mistake and the first one they made is that no one person took charge, and that one person is meant to be the skipper of the vessel. It doesn't matter about rank on the ground, it's the skipper of the boat.

Eventually, we all do stupid things. The wisdom is not to keep repeating them.
In all due respect, the system here of seniority in many public sector jobs permits the employees with the greatest points & seniority to get any job they desire. These jobs are not filled with the most skilled or qualified. If you were to research the boating backgrounds of these five officers, you would probably be shocked. Likely none has ever towed a trailer or owned a boat. I have talked to typical water officers. Most have never fished. Some can't swim. Most of the water cops in our area including Coast Guardsmen have never stepped on a sail boat. The worst of the bunch are the city police and county sheriff. Usually, the state conservation officers are pretty good. The State police and the coast guard invest in extensive training and so are quite good and conscientious. They also have higher education hiring requirements.

An infamous county sheriff in this state stopped a boat towing a skier. He counted the people and life jackets and proceeded to write a ticket. The law stated there must be a jacket in the boat for every person. The skier was in the water wearing a jacket. Therefore the jacket was not in the boat. After heated argument, the sheriff backed over the ski rope, took off and swamped the ski boat towing it backwards.

We were 10 minutes into a spinnaker start with 300 or so boats in a Cleveland Race Week regatta when the local water cops started demanding boats to stop for mandatory inspections. It was perfect - the 30 or so nearest yachters told them to F*** off it was a city sanctioned race. Cops said they didn't care - we needed to stop. We didn't & recommended they get out of the way or risk getting hit.

I was single-handing my Tornado Catamaran with the spinnaker & jib sheet in one hand and tiller & main in the other, flying a hull & out on the trapeze. (wearing my pfd & in wetsuit) The sheriff insisted I hove-to for a safety inspection. I declined & told him he could easily see everything he needed to see. He wanted to see my fire extinguisher. I continued to decline & told him I would put the boat in irons & risk damage to the boat or my person against the rocky lee shore. He followed and argued with me for several miles before he buggered off.

There are still locals out there who don't know that a documented boat is prohibited from showing any state registration numbers.

With the FED providing monster RIBs with 900 HP on the transom and machine gun mounts for water cops on the Great Lakes it has become worse in some areas.

Its all about training, experience and professionalism. The Bozos in the video displayed none. This video is unfortunately a fair representation of too many police departments. These are the same guys that entertain us at boat launches all over the US but with uniforms. When I'm too old for boating, I plan to hang out at boat launches with a video camera.
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Old 16-01-2016, 22:03   #74
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Re: COPS - what did they do wrong?

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So what was it you said about twisting what others say?

It was YOU who mentioned being booked for not wearing a seatbelt when launching the boat. I simply pointed out that you're OK to reverse without a seatbelt.

And it's not "according to me" illegal to then drive forward without a seatbelt. It's illegal ACCORDING TO THE LAW.

Has anyone said members of the public would have been booked if they did the same as the video? I certainly haven't.

However, if you made the same mistakes in front of a policeman who was in the right mood, he certainly COULD book you. Because some of what they did BROKE THE LAW.

And to be honest, if you had a couple of tonnes of boat/trailer careering out of control down a boat ramp, especially if it happened to be busy, (not the case in the video.) you SHOULD be booked for it.

YOU said they did nothing illegal in the video, nothing someone could be booked for. You were, in fact, wrong.

Stand by it as much as you like, it's still w-r-o-n-g, wrong.
What? Name one aspect of what I have twisted anything you have posted? Anything at all? You brought in the pedantic issues of 'driving on a public street' and a 'boat ramp is a public street'. YOU DID. To which I pointed out if it is to be that pedantic then when putting a boat in you should have your seat belt on. To which YOU said, not if your reversing. To which I pointed out, if your reversing a boat in, you have to drive forward at some point and then according to your logic you should be wearing your seat belt because hey, it's a public street.. Now where in this conversation have I twisted ANYTHING you said

This whole conversation started because in POST 48, it was suggested that if anyone else did these things that these cops did, you would be booked for it.. POST 48. I didn't accuse you of it, but you come in disputing it and agreeing with post 48, despite the fact you clearly didn't even read the context to my posts.

Can you get booked for not having a trailer shackled whilst reversing on a boat ramp? To be honest I don't know about where this happened. Some of the laws in the US are so odd, that I guess it's possible. Certainly, you can't here in Australia and I 'DOUBT' you can where this happened. Whether you should be able to be you ask? That's questionable.

You seem so black and white that it's unlawful.. well provide a cite for it? Has it ever happened? Has anyone ever been booked for it? Can you give an example?

I still don't think they did anything unlawful at all and I have 14 years as a cop to back up my experience. Dumb yes! That's my last on the issue..
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Old 16-01-2016, 22:05   #75
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Re: COPS - what did they do wrong?

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I can only hope you're joking.


And if I wasn't, where does my logic fail
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