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Old 13-01-2016, 17:37   #31
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Re: COPS - what did they do wrong?

"And for the past twenty years cops in this country, as in the UK, NZ and many other countries are now University trained in something prior to going into the Academies"

Well, of course! Same in this 'ere colony.

Some people are still missing the point. Those of us who have an authoritarian bent - as you MUST have to join any US PO-lice force - do not learn by just being told. Us authoritarians are born knowing that WE know better than any woosey instructor. We ONLY learn by feeling the pain inflicted by screwing up!

So the standard TEACHING method is to set up your stoodents for a fall. Then let them have at it. When the pain/embarassment gets intense enuff, they MAY learn!

These guys obviously had accomplished teachers - just outta the frame :-)

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Old 13-01-2016, 17:44   #32
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OK, I've got to respond to this "the Australian cops are not buffoons because they all went to University" comment.

I contend, if your own university education did not teach you there are plenty of buffoons who go to university, you failed to learn one of the most important things - there are screw-ups in every walk of life. There are many professions where no one has a low IQ, but none entirely free of buffoons.
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Old 13-01-2016, 20:16   #33
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Re: COPS - what did they do wrong?

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OK, I've got to respond to this "the Australian cops are not buffoons because they all went to University" comment.

I contend, if your own university education did not teach you there are plenty of buffoons who go to university, you failed to learn one of the most important things - there are screw-ups in every walk of life. There are many professions where no one has a low IQ, but none entirely free of buffoons.
It's an aspect of trolling when someone deliberately twists and changes what another poster has posted. That is nothing like what I stated.
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Old 13-01-2016, 23:39   #34
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Re: COPS - what did they do wrong?

Look, I am not trying to get into a "thing" with you but here's what you wrote:

And for the past twenty years cops in this country, as in the UK, NZ and many other countries are now University trained in something prior to going into the Academies. The days of hiring buffoons are over. I know that's not the case in the US.[/QUOTE]

So, with that quote you implied all the following:

1. People who are buffoons are not hired into police forces in the UK or NZ.

2. People who are not university trained can be "buffoons".

3. People who ARE university trained can not be "buffoons"

4. The police in the US are inferior to those in the UK and NZ - because ours include buffoons, and yours do not.

5. The US itself is inferior, because we allow buffoons to be police.


And then, when I put out a mild comment about it, you accuse me of "trolling" - now, I could be oversensitive, but saying "we don't hire buffoons, unlike you" is a much more provocative comment.

Please think about it a little.
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Old 13-01-2016, 23:57   #35
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Re: COPS - what did they do wrong?

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Look, I am not trying to get into a "thing" with you but here's what you wrote: yes you are, which is why you changed the wording to mean something I didn't post. You were looking for a rise, which is why you made the change.

And for the past twenty years cops in this country, as in the UK, NZ and many other countries are now University trained in something prior to going into the Academies. The days of hiring buffoons are over. I know that's not the case in the US.
So, with that quote you implied all the following:

1. People who are buffoons are not hired into police forces in the UK or NZ.

NO I did not at all.

2. People who are not university trained can be "buffoons".

Well, I didn't say that, but there's certainly truth to what YOU have said here. 'People who are not university trained can be buffoons', ŻES', and I would add, so can University trained people.

3. People who ARE university trained can not be "buffoons"

No I didn't.. said nothing like that.

4. The police in the US are inferior to those in the UK and NZ - because ours include buffoons, and yours do not.

I said nothing of the sort..

5. The US itself is inferior, because we allow buffoons to be police.

Again, I said nothing of the sort...

And then, when I put out a mild comment about it, you accuse me of "trolling" - now, I could be oversensitive, but saying "we don't hire buffoons, unlike you" is a much more provocative comment.

Please think about it a little.[/QUOTE] Yup.. given it some thought

My comment was critical of the history of cops in this country. That was the intent. They were under educated, frequently no more than High School or ex military. Frequently known as 'thugs' in this country or 'buffoons'. Until the late 80's and early 90's courts by Law in this country and in the UK accepted that police were 'honesty' and trust worthy and their word alone was superior than an accused. This all changed with a famous case called McKinney and Judge vs the Queen in 1991 and also the fall out from the British/Irish case (name escapes me) which had serious ramifications in Australia, introducing videoing of interviews and the need to have professional police officers.

Without a shadow of a doubt I would say that our police, UK police, NZ police are far more professional than police generally in the US yes.. We generally don't have a shoot blacks and ask questions later approach. Violence with police in the US is clearly a substantial problem. We don't have that no.

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Old 14-01-2016, 00:03   #36
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Re: COPS - what did they do wrong?

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Originally Posted by boatbrain View Post
Look, I am not trying to get into a "thing" with you but here's what you wrote:

And for the past twenty years cops in this country, as in the UK, NZ and many other countries are now University trained in something prior to going into the Academies. The days of hiring buffoons are over. I know that's not the case in the US.
So, with that quote you implied all the following:

1. People who are buffoons are not hired into police forces in the UK or NZ.

2. People who are not university trained can be "buffoons".

3. People who ARE university trained can not be "buffoons"

4. The police in the US are inferior to those in the UK and NZ - because ours include buffoons, and yours do not.

5. The US itself is inferior, because we allow buffoons to be police.


And then, when I put out a mild comment about it, you accuse me of "trolling" - now, I could be oversensitive, but saying "we don't hire buffoons, unlike you" is a much more provocative comment.

Please think about it a little.[/QUOTE]

And I might add, not that it will make a difference to someone trying to get a rise but, I do acknowledge that the 'professionalism' of American police has improved. They are more trained now in a lot of jurisdictions, community policing is starting to be introduced. But certainly a long long way behind the UK, Australian or NZ and perhaps two doz other countries.
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Old 14-01-2016, 00:22   #37
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Re: COPS - what did they do wrong?

I just love boating mishaps. Everyone knows that a cheap afternoon of entertainment can be had at the local boat launching ramp. These fellows just had a deeply intensive training exercise in physics. They'll do better next time.


In defense of police people...they are necessary. I work with them through hospital associations. I dare to say they are put into many situations that I never want to be put in ...for any amount of money. Please do not dehumanize them. They are just human beings doing their line of work.
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Old 14-01-2016, 04:40   #38
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Re: COPS - what did they do wrong?

entertaining video - as someone noted, set up your chair and parasol by the boat ramp - free entertainment.

re: cops - cops are pretty much like people are most, some are stupid, some are smart (more of the latter), some are mean, some are kind (more of the latter) ert c etc. I've been friends with a couple of cops - you couldn't pay me enough money to do that job. As one of them told - "sure there's lots of good days, but there are also days I come home still shaking, thinking I almost didn't come home except in a box"

Now these guys at the ramp - a bit of common sense would have gone a long way there
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Old 14-01-2016, 05:30   #39
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Re: COPS - what did they do wrong?

You guys really want to see something funny, go down to Austin Tx, Lake Travis specifically on like a Memorial day weekend, best time is late afternoon after there are many drunks. There are very few public boat ramps so they are very crowded.
The festivities are hilarious, then if you get bored shoot over to "Hippy Hollow"
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Old 14-01-2016, 07:27   #40
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Re: COPS - what did they do wrong?

Look Rustic, while claiming I am trying to provoke you, you post things like this:


Without a shadow of a doubt I would say that our police, UK police, NZ police are far more professional than police generally in the US yes.. We generally don't have a shoot blacks and ask questions later approach. Violence with police in the US is clearly a substantial problem. We don't have that no.


Dude: I lived in Oakland California for many years - a huge part of it is black ghetto - of course the cops should not shoot first and ask questions later - but you sheltered people in countries with very low gun ownership have no idea how dangerous the gangstas are - none at all. Someone got shot dead in an ambush right outside my house- one car followed the other, apparently without being seen - lead car stops, following car stops and blocks him in, guy jumps out and shoots everyone in the victim car - one dies, driver manages to speed to police station.

Couple of months later, cops do traffic stop - felon with parole violations opens up, kills both cops, runs, hides, kills two more cops looking for him.

My kid's high school class - one really nice young man, by all accounts, is at his friend's party and some people try to crash the party, are told to leave - they shoot him dead - they'd been "dissed" you see? Can't be dissed, if I feel disrespected I kill you - and disrespected includes not being allowed to crash any party they want to - and by the way, when I say "they" I don't mean any particular racial group - you mentioned cops killing blacks for no reason and my experience is with a black ghetto - but it's not all blacks by any means who are gangsters.

My point with all this is, your cops have little reason to fear for their lives - and therefore little reason to get scared and shoot when they don't have to.

The situation in the US is totally different - granted Oakland is kind of a hellhole, but we've got dozens of cities like that.

And I do not believe having a University education makes a person rise above that fear. I don't think that has anything to do with it.

The last thing I will say - when you keep saying I was trying to provoke you, while I say I was not, you are calling me a liar - which feels like a provocation to me. Well, my original comment did mock the idea that only hiring University people eliminates buffoons. And I am standing by that, but it was a sincere point I made for a reason.

I don't know if your feelings about the US lead you to avoid it, but if you do come, I suggest you go tour the bad areas of a big city like Oakland - go see Baby Baghdad, as it's called, and you'll get some idea of what I am talking about.




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Old 14-01-2016, 07:31   #41
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Re: COPS - what did they do wrong?

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You guys really want to see something funny, go down to Austin Tx, Lake Travis specifically on like a Memorial day weekend, best time is late afternoon after there are many drunks. There are very few public boat ramps so they are very crowded.
The festivities are hilarious, then if you get bored shoot over to "Hippy Hollow"

Been there; laughed my a$$ off most of the time. Especially when the water is down so the ramp is long then near the end of the day it gets slick...

Quite often more money than sense is being displayed.


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Old 14-01-2016, 07:49   #42
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Re: COPS - what did they do wrong?

Guys - some of these posts are getting pretty close to where I'll have to start moderating them. Let's lighten up please
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Old 14-01-2016, 07:51   #43
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Re: COPS - what did they do wrong?

Rustic - my vision is not good, and now I see you were using the white flag icons or whatever they are called. If I'd seen those earlier I probably would have toned things down - and yes, there are some outrageous police shootings - if you look at the entire US, it seems like someone is being killed by the cops without good reason about every week or so- there is a video on YouTube of some cop shooting a guy in the back who only ran - no violence at all - he may have stolen the car the cop stopped him in, - but straight up murder with no possible "I was scared" justification. We do have way too much of it, no question about it.

I did not mean to get carried away.
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Old 14-01-2016, 11:39   #44
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Re: COPS - what did they do wrong?

Actually, we not only hire but we encourage a legacy of buffoons and worse, in the military as well as emergency services. Consider all the hazing scandals, and look up "Operation Tail Hook" to see how mature some military brass have behaved, in public, on business.


Real class clowns? Rarely, they'd eliminate themselves because the environment is too drab, so there's some limit on buffoonery. Although, I personally know a fireman in one of the nation's largest forces, which is also reknownded for hazing whoever the "newbie" is. They made a run, got back the firehouse, and the newbie was sitting on a chair, all overheated and exhausted. The fireman, who was at that point a lieutenant, said, gee, poor guy, would you like a glass of cold water? And the newbie said yes. Instead he got a glass of hot water (our water dispensers often have taps for both) dumped in his lap. The lt meant to dump ice water on his crotch, accidentally dumped scalding water...got demoted two grades and put on probation for that one. Buffoon?
I've met cops with less brains. And also, some damneded well educated hard-working ones.
But as any police recruiter or police psychiatrist will tell you (because every recruit goes through a psych evaluation) the hardest trick is telling the good potential cops apart from the thugs, who just want the uniform and gun so they can bully "everyone" who isn't in blue.
And that's a universal problem with police recruiting, worse than buffoonery, worldwide.


But these guys with the boat....hey, all they did was get wet shoes. I think every one of us has had a worse day on the water, the only question is whether we had an audience.
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Old 14-01-2016, 11:56   #45
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Re: COPS - what did they do wrong?

those guys should had the ob in gear they would not have had that problem. someone should address that in the training manual.
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