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Old 25-01-2018, 21:25   #16
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Re: Controlling reefing lines when dropping main

I know you've said you don't like extra lines, but perhaps it might be worth making a concession for a downhaul, led back to the cockpit? It wouldn't need a winch or a jammer or anything, and it would allow you to stay in the cockpit where you could also handle taking the slack out of the reefing lines. Plus, you'd stay drier, and safer. A downhaul wouldn't work for me because the slides like to jam in the track, but perhaps your slides are better than mine?

I'm envisaging something like, cast off halyard, then alternate pulling on the downhaul and the reefing lines. You could even double up the reefing lines in your hand so that you're pulling on both of them at the same time, and because all you need to do is pull enough in to avoid whipping people in the face it needn't be perfect, so would be a lot faster than sequentially putting in reefs.

Unless.......... Is your halyard at the mast?
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Old 26-01-2018, 04:51   #17
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Re: Controlling reefing lines when dropping main

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Originally Posted by DefinitelyMe View Post
I know you've said you don't like extra lines, but perhaps it might be worth making a concession for a downhaul, led back to the cockpit?

Unless.......... Is your halyard at the mast?
Yeah... Nah.
Going to the mast is not a problem at all. Id always prefer to flake main from there.


Halyard comes back to cockpit, but it is not a problem when Im dragging main down. Cars can stick, but normally ok.

Suspect it is best to teach my partner to duck...
or best we use the auto pilot.

Mike
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Old 26-01-2018, 04:52   #18
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Re: Controlling reefing lines when dropping main

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Of course, it doesn't and eventually it's time to reef - which becomes lets just drop the main. (Either we are heading to land, or we decide to just run under headsail). With swept back spreaders, we turn up into the wind to drop the main. And at this wind speed, there is enough pressure that I need to pull the main down at the mast. It's normally a bit bumpy as well.



So what happens is while I'm pulling the main down, both reefing lines stream out behind the boom, flailing around. Not the best.


)

You paint a picture of someone who is struggling with lowering the main sail but trying to fix the Reefing lines. What’s up with your main not coming down when your luffing? There should not be any pressure?
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Old 26-01-2018, 21:55   #19
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Re: Controlling reefing lines when dropping main

I'm not sure if its the case with the OP, but its quite a poor situation if the reefing lines are running to the cockpit while the halyard winch is on the mast, or vice versa. If a boat is set up for single handing (should be, for most cruisers that is the reality), then the whole reefing operation should be done either at the mast or in the cockpit. In either position then, it's not too hard for one person to grab and pull on both reefing lines as required, several times, to remove most of the slack while lowering the halyard with the other hand. If luffing, the main will drop most or all of the distance to the new tack cringle, without downhauling so the lowering of halyard under control can be done with one hand. Anyway it's what I do on my own boat (all at the mast).

Someone suggested, by inference and not very clearly, that you don't need to luff to downhaul the main. I don't see how the main could be hauled down with a full wind load in it. Not with normal sail slides.

I can sympathize with the OP as I have been hit in the eye with a flailing jib sheet. The idiot skipper was having so much fun talking to the other folks in the cockpit that he forgot about a couple of us stationed at the mast. He put the boat into an unannounced snap tack and we had no time to move aft. Took nearly a month for the eye to look normal again, and luckily there was no permanent damage. The danger is real.
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Old 27-01-2018, 11:37   #20
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Re: Controlling reefing lines when dropping main

I'm confused here. To my ears, "dropping" the main means ALL THE WAY. While dropping the main just enough to put in a reef, is called REEFING THE MAIN never confusing it with the D word. Could just be my confusion.

But if you're dropping the main, who cares where the reef lines are? While you're flaking the main, you can tuck them in between the folds of the sail. Surely, they aren't going to be a major menace for the time it takes to do that??

I also prefer to drop and flake the main from the rear, so it can be done solo on smaller boats, and any stray lines tucked in while that happens. If you have to be at the mast in order to help the sail down, there's something wrong, often just the track needing to be cleaned out and lubed.
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Old 27-01-2018, 11:41   #21
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Re: Controlling reefing lines when dropping main

Coil them and place in the folds of the sail
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Old 28-01-2018, 03:22   #22
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Re: Controlling reefing lines when dropping main

MLOI - I understand completely what your dealing with. I was out this weekend with my new to me CD28 and had just set up a way to reef the main last week. My mainsail only has one reef point at the moment, I'll probably have a second one added soon.

What I set up was a tack hook and a single line. I thought it would minimize clutter and keep things simple. It worked very well, I'm pretty happy with it so far. My single line leads to a cleat on the boom about 2' back from the gooseneck, so when I'm at the mast everything is within reach and on the same side.

My line is only enough to reach the cleat when the sail is fully raised, but like you when I drop the main completely I do have a couple of good loops hanging around. I also realize when I add a second reef I'll have an additional and even longer couple of loops to deal with !!

What I want to do is add some lazy jacks to control and contain the mainsail. My hope is that this will also do the same for the reef lines. This may be an idea that will work for you too.

Just FWIW, I've been sailing on the St. Johns river here in Jacksonville since my first sailboat 25+ years ago. I guess I've only been a fair weather sailor all that time because I never even had a reefing setup on any of my other sailboats ! LOL. But I was determined to go out this weekend and I'm super glad I had a way to put in a reef. It was good steady 15-20 knots with higher gusts and the boat sailed so darn well and balanced with the reefed main and working jib. It was awesome !
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Old 30-01-2018, 19:10   #23
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Re: Controlling reefing lines when dropping main

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Originally Posted by JC Reefer View Post
What’s up with your main not coming down when your luffing? There should not be any pressure?
Dunno if you have ever tried it, but when the sail is well overpowered, there is a fair pressure on it even when luffing. It took 3 of us - all 200 lbs blokes best part of an hour to pull the main down on a 50 ft race boat we were delivering back from Hobart on one trip. And that sail had batt cars.

On my 37 ft sloop the main is much smaller, but in 30 knots plus it definitely needs to be dragged down - it won't drop on it's own. 20 knots, sure, it'll drop on it's own, although I tend to flake it down anyway.
While you can add a down haul, I prefer to avoid the complexity and just pull the sail down at the mast.


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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
I'm confused here. To my ears, "dropping" the main means ALL THE WAY. While dropping the main just enough to put in a reef, is called REEFING THE MAIN never confusing it with the D word.

But if you're dropping the main, who cares where the reef lines are?
If you have to be at the mast in order to help the sail down, there's something wrong, often just the track needing to be cleaned out and lubed.
I am talking about dropping the main. From full hoist to put away.
The reefing discussion came about from the suggestion that I use the reefing lines to drag the main down. Which is valid, but slower and more effort.
ie put the main away in two steps -full hoist to second reef, second reef to dropped.

As to who cares where the reefing lines are? That was my original problem. My partner cares where the reefing lines are when they are hitting her in the face.

I'm thankful for the ideas, but it does seem that many of the folks commenting don't have experience of dropping a well overpowered main. We tend to put the first reef in at 15 knots if going up wind, and don't drop boat speed by doing so. The same main at 30 + knots is a bit of a handful.

To be clear, I don't have a problem at all with going to the mast and dragging it down in these conditions. The only issue I was trying to come up with an easy way to solve is controlling the reefing lines while I do so. One hand for the boat, one for me, makes it hard to find another hand for the reefing lines...

Mike
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Old 30-01-2018, 20:16   #24
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Re: Controlling reefing lines when dropping main

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Originally Posted by MLOI View Post
Dunno if you have ever tried it, but when the sail is well overpowered, there is a fair pressure on it even when luffing. It took 3 of us - all 200 lbs blokes best part of an hour to pull the main down on a 50 ft race boat we were delivering back from Hobart on one trip. And that sail had batt cars.
Yes I have tried and have found that when things start acting up and require more effort than they should then it’s a sure sign that something is wrong. To me, IMO, 600 pounds struggling to pull down a luffing sail is wrong.


Sounds like we are trying to fix a symptom of another problem.
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Old 30-01-2018, 22:01   #25
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Re: Controlling reefing lines when dropping main

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Yes I have tried and have found that when things start acting up and require more effort than they should then it’s a sure sign that something is wrong. To me, IMO, 600 pounds struggling to pull down a luffing sail is wrong.
.
Of course it was wrong. We had way too much sail up for the conditions (I absolve myself of blame as I was off watch at the time. Think it was forward hands trying to set speed records...).

FWIW the crew had done a couple of Sydney Hobarts on that boat, and were delivering the boat home after taking line honors, winning IRC and breaking the race record for Melbourne - Hobart. We were on the delivery main, but it was in pretty good condition. Track and cars were fine. Must admit that I never asked how much load was on the backstays that day - a lot of mast bend can make it a bit harder. Hubris was a problem :-) but boat condition and experience probably not.
Bay racing we never had any issues up to 30ish knots, but in a lumpy swell offshore and more wind we did.

On my boat it is not a problem pulling the main down as I've stated. It doesn't drop in wind but I can pull it down fine. I was just curious if others had some easy smart idea for how to deal with the reefing lines when short handed with one person on the helm.

Mike
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Old 31-01-2018, 03:25   #26
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Re: Controlling reefing lines when dropping main

If you are having trouble dropping the main because your slides stick you can try relieving friction on the slides by slightly raising the boom using a topping lift before dropping the sail. This also works when reefing.
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Old 31-01-2018, 04:35   #27
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Re: Controlling reefing lines when dropping main

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If you are having trouble dropping the main because your slides stick you can try relieving friction on the slides by slightly raising the boom using a topping lift before dropping the sail. This also works when reefing.
A few squirts of Sailkote on the track wouldn't go amiss either.
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