Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 22-01-2018, 23:37   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Port Phillip Bay
Boat: Etap 37 S
Posts: 183
Controlling reefing lines when dropping main

Do folks have any good tips on what to do with the reefing lines when dropping the mainsail?
In light conditions, I don't worry much, I tend to flake the main at the mast end, then tidy up the lines and aft end of the sail later. But in heavier conditions the excess reefing lines flailing around at the end of the boom can get quite painful.

On Moli we have a 7/8ths fractional rig, so decent sized main. We also have single line reefing for first two reefs, so there is a fair bit of line there.
We (my fault) have been caught a couple of times running downwind with the full main up in 30 something knots. In these conditions, Moli goes quite well, so we are only seeing high teens apparent in 25 knots, which is still very comfortable... and a bit of fun. Problem is, the wind builds into the 30s (more than forecast), but we are still sailing OK, so hold sail thinking the pressure will ease.

Of course, it doesn't and eventually it's time to reef - which becomes lets just drop the main. (Either we are heading to land, or we decide to just run under headsail). With swept back spreaders, we turn up into the wind to drop the main. And at this wind speed, there is enough pressure that I need to pull the main down at the mast. It's normally a bit bumpy as well.

So what happens is while I'm pulling the main down, both reefing lines stream out behind the boom, flailing around. Not the best.

Do folks try and pull the slack reefing lines through to the mast to contain them? (I seem to run out of hands, and it takes longer)
Or do you dedicate someone to taking in the reefing lines as the sail drops? (we are normally out of 'someone's at this point)

And in case you are wondering, yes, one of the lines did hit my partner in the face. Hence it has been explained to me that I need a better solution.

Mike
(Yes - I know the _right_ answer is to reef early... but it's all pleasant at 25 knots wind, and fast is fun)
MLOI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2018, 00:32   #2
mrm
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Poland, EU
Boat: crew on Bavaria 38 Cruiser
Posts: 654
Re: Controlling reefing lines when dropping main

Quote:
Originally Posted by MLOI View Post

[...]

Of course, it doesn't and eventually it's time to reef - which becomes lets just drop the main. (Either we are heading to land, or we decide to just run under headsail). With swept back spreaders, we turn up into the wind to drop the main. And at this wind speed, there is enough pressure that I need to pull the main down at the mast. It's normally a bit bumpy as well.

So what happens is while I'm pulling the main down, both reefing lines stream out behind the boom, flailing around. Not the best.

Do folks try and pull the slack reefing lines through to the mast to contain them? (I seem to run out of hands, and it takes longer)
Or do you dedicate someone to taking in the reefing lines as the sail drops? (we are normally out of 'someone's at this point)

And in case you are wondering, yes, one of the lines did hit my partner in the face. Hence it has been explained to me that I need a better solution.

Mike
(Yes - I know the _right_ answer is to reef early... but it's all pleasant at 25 knots wind, and fast is fun)
Hmm..
why don't you do it in stages?
1) first reef
2) second reef

(this takes care of loose reefing lines)

3) pull the remaining main down if still necessary
mrm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2018, 01:00   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Port Phillip Bay
Boat: Etap 37 S
Posts: 183
Re: Controlling reefing lines when dropping main

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrm View Post
Hmm..
why don't you do it in stages?
1) first reef
2) second reef

(this takes care of loose reefing lines)

3) pull the remaining main down if still necessary
Because it takes too long to do, and too long to raise the main next time we go out.
Plus it needs a body to pull the reefing lines through OR I need to grind the sail down with the reefing lines a bit at a time.

Much quicker just to quickly drag the main down - a couple of minutes vs 10.

It is the fall back position though, I'd just prefer not to.

Mike
MLOI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2018, 02:16   #4
mrm
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Poland, EU
Boat: crew on Bavaria 38 Cruiser
Posts: 654
Re: Controlling reefing lines when dropping main

Quote:
Originally Posted by MLOI View Post
Because it takes too long to do, and too long to raise the main next time we go out.
Plus it needs a body to pull the reefing lines through OR I need to grind the sail down with the reefing lines a bit at a time.

Much quicker just to quickly drag the main down - a couple of minutes vs 10.

It is the fall back position though, I'd just prefer not to.

Mike
Agree it takes more time to rise the main. As for the rest, our reefing lines run inside the boom (Selden) and a single line for each reef is led back to the cockpit. No need to leave the cockpit and reefing is smooth. Probably batten cars help a bit too. Total time to 2nd reef is about 3 minutes.
mrm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2018, 07:39   #5
Registered User
 
Stu Jackson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 9,704
Re: Controlling reefing lines when dropping main

Quote:
Originally Posted by MLOI View Post
1. Because it takes too long to do, and too long to raise the main next time we go out.
2. Plus it needs a body to pull the reefing lines through OR I need to grind the sail down with the reefing lines a bit at a time.

3. Much quicker just to quickly drag the main down - a couple of minutes vs 10.

4. It is the fall back position though, I'd just prefer not to.
Mike,

Single line reefing is described in the OP, so it appears that the lines are led back to the cockpit.

1. In ANY reefing system, the reef lines are tight when you are done, I almost dropped my coffee when I read this.

2. I always drop my halyard to a pre-marked spot first and then tighten the reefing lines.

3. Agree.

4. Don't understand.

When I want to raise the main again it is necessary to undo the reefing lines by simply pulling them back out before I raise the main again. That's why I said what I did in #1.

What I do to avoid this is to pull in the flapping reef lines either during the reefing process or immediately thereafter. Doesn't take long.

I have double line reefing, but both of my clew lines (first & second reef) are in clutches right next to each other so I pull them in at the same time by grabbing both of them at the same time. For me the tack lines rarely get in the way or flap near a crew member. For the tack lines I adjust them later. In your case, with single line reefing, the tack gets adjusted at the same time as the clew.
__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
Stu Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2018, 10:37   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Langley, WA
Boat: Nordic 44
Posts: 2,501
Re: Controlling reefing lines when dropping main

Do you have lazy jacks? Very handy in heavy weather to tame the main. With lazy jacks one sail tie contains the main and the reefing lines until they can be neatened up. I usually just stuff the reefing lines into the folds of the sail as part of the final cleanup.
stormalong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2018, 12:24   #7
Registered User
 
Captain Bucknut's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Columbus, OH
Boat: '86 Catalina 25, swing keel
Posts: 77
Re: Controlling reefing lines when dropping main

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
Mike,

Single line reefing is described in the OP, so it appears that the lines are led back to the cockpit.

1. In ANY reefing system, the reef lines are tight when you are done, I almost dropped my coffee when I read this.

2. I always drop my halyard to a pre-marked spot first and then tighten the reefing lines.

3. Agree.

4. Don't understand.

When I want to raise the main again it is necessary to undo the reefing lines by simply pulling them back out before I raise the main again. That's why I said what I did in #1.

What I do to avoid this is to pull in the flapping reef lines either during the reefing process or immediately thereafter. Doesn't take long.

I have double line reefing, but both of my clew lines (first & second reef) are in clutches right next to each other so I pull them in at the same time by grabbing both of them at the same time. For me the tack lines rarely get in the way or flap near a crew member. For the tack lines I adjust them later. In your case, with single line reefing, the tack gets adjusted at the same time as the clew.
I'm with Stu. Same setup with reef 1 and 2 back to the cockpit. Depending on the weather and crew we either leave them slack when dropping the main in light weather or pull in while dropping the main. The main halyard is right there as well, so pull and slack helps to bring the main in under control with a bit of weather. Once back in our slip we coil and tidy things up into the main so there aren't any lines just hanging about.

As for lazy jacks..... i see the purpose, especially when your single handed or if you don't have the crew or the strength to be messing with a main in a blow..... Haven came rigged with Lazy Jacks. Lady Pirate didn't like the aesthetics of all the lines involved. We both prefer how clean she looks without the web of lines involved.
Captain Bucknut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2018, 12:34   #8
Registered User
 
Ramona's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NSW Australia
Boat: SS34
Posts: 205
Re: Controlling reefing lines when dropping main

Lazy jacks and a stack pack. Best to reef in order so by the time you are down to the 3rd reef all the sail is safely in the stack pack as well as any loose reefing lines. Just a heap of rope in the cockpit but that's fine. If you do suddenly decide to go from a full main to the third reef instead of just rounding up and dropping the sail, sail on a close reach. Let the mainsheet off, tighten topping lift. Drop the main halyard down to a premarked spot on the halyard and haul in the reefing lines. Most of the loose reefing lines will land in the stack pack or be flailing about well clear of the boat and can be tidied up at your leisure. Always reef when you first think about it!
Ramona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2018, 12:42   #9
Registered User
 
JC Reefer's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 717
Re: Controlling reefing lines when dropping main

What if you had a simple system to pull the loose reefing line towards the mast?

One leg would something like a bungee cord attached to the mast with a low friction ring attached to the other end. The reefing line would be led through the ring. As you drop your sail the reefing line slack would be taken up by the bungee cord. This could be something that you would engage only when needed so that it does not interfere with sail shape.

Kind of a loopy idea.

You can also reef earlier
JC Reefer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2018, 14:52   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Port Phillip Bay
Boat: Etap 37 S
Posts: 183
Re: Controlling reefing lines when dropping main

Quote:
Originally Posted by JC Reefer View Post
Kind of a loopy idea.
Thank you! I was looking for ideas I had not thought of. It's loopy, but it gives me an idea using the preventer line which is permanently run under the boom. Hmmm...

I agree with everyone here. Yes we should reef early, yes it is possible to put the reefs in as we slowly drop the sail. We have lazy jacks and a bag to drop the main into.
Yes - main halyard is marked with both reefing points.
Yes - the reefing lines are marked.
Yes - I have both reefing lines on port and halyard on Starboard so I can have both on the cabin top winches at the same time for good control.

My 5'4" partner was able to put in first or second reef by herself at night. We have that pretty much under control. Release vang, ease halyard, grind in some reefing line, repeat until halyard hits mark, tighten reefing line, Vang on.

However... reality is that going down wind we have, at times, carried full main longer than we should. The boat sails just fine, no wild broaches or rounding down. But it does required concentration, and normally hand steering, so several times we have decided to drop from full main rather than reefing incrementally. When it's windy, I do need to go to the mast to drag the sail down, it won't just drop on it's own. It's not tough to do, but it takes me out of the cockpit, so we are short of hands to control reefing lines. Particularly if my partner is hand steering due to conditions /boat speed etc.

So we understand how we should have done it, I was looking for loopy ideas for when we are already passed what we should have done, and into the fun but foolish zone.

Mike
MLOI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2018, 19:47   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2015
Boat: Land bound, previously Morgan 462
Posts: 1,991
Re: Controlling reefing lines when dropping main

Usually when reefing you continue to sail on the foresail and you are not pointing directly upwind, unless you are motoring. Since the wind is about 35 degrees off the bow as you lower the main, and the boom is also out there just flopping around, why do the reef lines hit someone in the cockpit? Person in cockpit should sit on weather side to avoid that.

In any event, can you grab a handful of the slack reefing lines as you are lowering the halyard and quickly cleat it off? If your mate can help she can take up the slack herself, as I believe you mentioned in-cockpit reefing.

In our boat we have a complete cockpit cover deployed at all times so all parts of the cockpit are impossible to hit with a slack reefing line. This also protects everyone from the mainsheet in case of accidental jibe. And sun, wind, spray or rain are less of a problem!
waterman46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2018, 02:25   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Port Phillip Bay
Boat: Etap 37 S
Posts: 183
Re: Controlling reefing lines when dropping main

Quote:
Originally Posted by waterman46 View Post
Since the wind is about 35 degrees off the bow as you lower the main, and the boom is also out there just flopping around, why do the reef lines hit someone in the cockpit? Person in cockpit should sit on weather side to avoid that.
I tend to have the boom loosely sheeted with the traveller all the way down - so the end of the boom is only a couple of meters from the wheel. Much further out and the loose sail flogs against the spreaders. Second reefing point would be 6 ish? meters up, so there is a bunch of line. Plenty of length to reach to the wheel.
(For reference, with the boom centered, the aft end of it is under a meter forward of the wheel, perhaps 2m off the deck. )

The time my partner got hit she was hand steering (I don't remember why) and the boat was bouncing a bit in the short chop. Wasn't too big, about a meter and a half, but steep and quick. So she was standing centered behind the wheel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waterman46 View Post
In any event, can you grab a handful of the slack reefing lines as you are lowering the halyard and quickly cleat it off?
!
In this case I wasn't lowering the halyard - the halyard was free, I was at the mast dragging the sail down. I could probably drag the reefing lines forward where they come out of the boom, although I was in the mindset of get the sail down, then clean up.

I think I'm ending up back at the opening position - if it actually has got away from us that much, take the time to put the reefs in first, then drop the main completely after. Accept doing it slower.

Mike
MLOI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2018, 05:45   #13
Moderator Emeritus
 
nigel1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Manchester, UK
Boat: Beneteau 473
Posts: 5,589
Re: Controlling reefing lines when dropping main

Quote:
Originally Posted by MLOI View Post

I think I'm ending up back at the opening position - if it actually has got away from us that much, take the time to put the reefs in first, then drop the main completely after. Accept doing it slower.

Mike

Mike, I think what you last said might be the best solution.

I single hand a 47ft boat with 42 m2 mainsail, three reefing points, 1 and 2 are single line, the third, deep reef has a separate reefing lines to luff and leech. Boom is fitted with lazy jacks.
Standard track and slides, nothing fancy.

As I single hand, couple of things I changed to make it easier for me. One, was ditch the original 12mm halyard and replaced with a 10mm dyneema halyard, less weight and less friction.
Two, fitted a downhaul between the headboard and the third reef point on the luff of the sail.

I usually try and reef as the wind pick up, but sometimes, on a deep reach, bowling along, you get a bit carried away and just enjoy the experience and then end up with the struggle you describe in coming into wind and dropping the main.

In this case I head close to dead down wind and furl about one third of the genoa. Then ease the vang right off and heave in a few inches on the topping lift. Make sure the halyard is ready to release (I transfer to a winch and release the clutch).

Start luffing up and sheeting in genoa and main, you want to end up pretty much close hauled, with the main off the spreaders and it will be flogging.
Start to ease the halyard and at same time take in slack on the reefing lines (I don't bother with the third reef luff line). It takes a little time, but it avoids the reef lines flogging everywhere and it helps flake the sail.
When I get to the third reef, depending on wind strength, the rest of the sail might come down on its own, otherwise I have to release halyard completely, make sure it is clear to run free, then I go to the mast and use the downhaul to bring in the last of the main.

The reason for partly furling the genoa to start with is to reduce heel once the boat is close hauled, just makes life easier.

Having the reef lines flogging about not only is there a risk of them hitting crew (as you know), but they also twist themselves together and risk fouling on the lazy jacks as well.

Takes me about 3 to 5 minutes to get the main down in a strong breeze.
__________________
Nigel
Beneteau 473
Manchester, UK
nigel1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2018, 19:10   #14
Registered User
 
Dougtiff's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: San Rafael, Ca.
Boat: Gaff rigged Ketch[Spray]37' on deck
Posts: 602
Re: Controlling reefing lines when dropping main

I can't believe i'm reading that people sailing at sea, with 25 + knots are rounding up to luff, to reef, are you serious, talk about putting yourself and vessel jeopardy, taking a wave in the cockpit while rounding up, then green water over the bow while luffing, with the bow ridding up and down, trying to hold on and work at the same time, what happened to down hauls, while reaching, keeping the boat moving with the seas.
Dougtiff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2018, 19:14   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Port Phillip Bay
Boat: Etap 37 S
Posts: 183
Re: Controlling reefing lines when dropping main

Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel1 View Post
I usually try and reef as the wind pick up, but sometimes, on a deep reach, bowling along, you get a bit carried away and just enjoy the experience and then end up with the struggle you describe in coming into wind and dropping the main.
Sounds like you you've been there, done that
I'm very glad to see I'm not the only one.

My main is only 36 m2, but other than that our setups are almost identical, as are the procedures we follow when taking in a couple of reefs. Agree with everything you say.

I'm facing up to the fact that I was just trying to find a way to support me being lazy and fast, rather than thorough and a bit slower. But as usual, fast and lazy doesn't really work.
(Actually I'm more used to doing mast on a fully crewed 50ft race boat, where smacking the brains trust down the back with a reefing line would only help to make them wake up and think they could help occasionally)

Mike
MLOI is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dropping the main into stack pack - always some remains up. EvilRabbit General Sailing Forum 20 06-07-2021 06:08
450: faster mainsail dropping? Reefing mod? Houston450 Lagoon Catamarans 33 31-01-2019 21:20
Controlling very large flexible spars with multiple lines pbmaise Construction, Maintenance & Refit 6 27-07-2016 14:18
Beneteau 50 In Mast Reefing vs Slab Reefing simon10 Monohull Sailboats 20 11-09-2008 06:22

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:03.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.