Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 20-10-2014, 11:35   #61
Registered User
 
Stu Jackson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 6,389
Re: COLREGS - Sailing in an anchorage or mooring field

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Here's on for you: You are out sailing and a racing fleet overtakes you. You are not going the identical direction they are and one close by is pointing up causing you to change course. Are you required to allow him to sail his "best course" for racing? Is this a "mast abeam" situation?
Happens all the time on SF Bay, which is a great cruising ground as well as a BIG racing course.

The easiest thing to do is to be COURTEOUS. If you've ever raced, you know what that means: stay out of their way, it's the NICE thing to do.

Not so hard either, if you keep your damn head out of your own boat.
__________________

__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, (Maple Bay Marina) SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
Stu Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-10-2014, 11:35   #62
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Boat: Custom Van De Stadt 47 Samoa
Posts: 3,755
Re: COLREGS - Sailing in an anchorage or mooring field

^^ racing boats meeting non-racing boats are governed by the Colregs and NOT the racing rules. But it is generally viewed as polite to allow racing boats to sail their course.

and as an aside . . . "mast abeam" is long gone from the racing rules.
__________________

__________________
estarzinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-10-2014, 12:02   #63
Registered User
 
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 6,066
Re: COLREGS - Sailing in an anchorage or mooring field

Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
Here the ship is the stand-on vessel as it is in a narrow shipping channel. All the sailboats must maneuver around her. The ship hadn't run over my motor vessel: we were crossing her wake from starboard to port after she passed.

Not to sound like an ass but I can see no relevance?
__________________
Cadence is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 20-10-2014, 12:43   #64
Registered User
 
markpierce's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Central California
Boat: M/V Carquinez Coot
Posts: 3,416
Re: COLREGS - Sailing in an anchorage or mooring field

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadence View Post
Not to sound like an ass but I can see no relevance?
If irrelevant, why post it again?
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 20-10-2014, 12:47   #65
Registered User
 
zboss's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: On a boat
Boat: Cabo Rico 38
Posts: 3,431
Re: COLREGS - Sailing in an anchorage or mooring field

We had no engine in our Colgate 26 - there are lots of boats that size in the caribbean with no engine. We would regularly sail in and out of anchorages, in and out of our slip in west end, and onto and off mooring balls.

In fact, this was the norm not too long ago

We needed to keep in mind that most caps assumed we had an engine, so they wouldn't react the same way in the anchorage as they would if they were expecting the boat to be unpowered. It didn't cause many issues.
__________________
zboss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-10-2014, 13:03   #66
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: West Coast
Posts: 51
Re: COLREGS - Sailing in an anchorage or mooring field

As a racer, I find moving obstructions (the non-racers) make a course more interesting.
Ships, cruisers, and especially something like a small motorboat trolling with multiple lines out about 5 boatlengths above the leeward mark. (Yes, that's happened. Was interesting to see how many boats weren't looking ahead and were surprised. Learned some new phrases.)
Racing rules apply only to racers, colregs apply to everyone. When racing, I'm watching both racers and non-racers, and planning around both.
__________________
cattar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-10-2014, 13:11   #67
Registered User
 
avb3's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Florida/Alberta
Boat: Lippincott 30
Posts: 9,913
Images: 1
Re: COLREGS - Sailing in an anchorage or mooring field

Quote:
Originally Posted by cattar View Post
As a racer, I find moving obstructions (the non-racers) make a course more interesting.
Ships, cruisers, and especially something like a small motorboat trolling with multiple lines out about 5 boatlengths above the leeward mark. (Yes, that's happened. Was interesting to see how many boats weren't looking ahead and were surprised. Learned some new phrases.)
Racing rules apply only to racers, colregs apply to everyone. When racing, I'm watching both racers and non-racers, and planning around both.



Probably the most important take away for racers to understand in the heat of the moment.

Thanks for stressing it.
__________________
If your attitude resembles the south end of a bull heading north, it's time to turn around.
avb3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-10-2014, 13:14   #68
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,890
Re: COLREGS - Sailing in an anchorage or mooring field

Quote:
Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
^^ racing boats meeting non-racing boats are governed by the Colregs and NOT the racing rules. But it is generally viewed as polite to allow racing boats to sail their course.

and as an aside . . . "mast abeam" is long gone from the racing rules.
Of course, if you assert your rights by busting thru a race, you will be lucky if you aren't lynched but god forbid you mess with thier rights when you are just trying to get in and out of the harbor and they are asserting thier rights.

This is where I (and I suspect a lot of other boaters) get annoyed with racers. When it's in thier interest, they jump up and down and point to the col-regs but go busting thru thier race and it's a different attitude.

Yeah, the col-regs ultimately win out but it's mostly ego issue.
__________________
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-10-2014, 13:27   #69
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: West Coast
Posts: 51
Re: COLREGS - Sailing in an anchorage or mooring field

Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
it's mostly ego issue.
I think there are just some people who don't share well and must have their way.
This doesn't seem specific to any group of boaters, more to individuals.
__________________
cattar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-10-2014, 13:30   #70
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: May 2012
Location: New Orleans
Boat: We have a problem... A serious addiction issue.
Posts: 3,940
Re: COLREGS - Sailing in an anchorage or mooring field

Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
Of course, if you assert your rights by busting thru a race, you will be lucky if you aren't lynched but god forbid you mess with thier rights when you are just trying to get in and out of the harbor and they are asserting thier rights.

This is where I (and I suspect a lot of other boaters) get annoyed with racers. When it's in thier interest, they jump up and down and point to the col-regs but go busting thru thier race and it's a different attitude.

Yeah, the col-regs ultimately win out but it's mostly ego issue.
I have raced just about everywhere on the eastern seaboard, the Gulf of Mexico, and california. I can only think of two or three racers who would meet your description.

However last regatta I ran I had to call out the USCG to remove a spectator boat from our race course. The guy was pissed making much the same arguments that you are about racers not having special privlages.

However at least while on a racing course (as opposed to a distance race) every sailboat race in US territorial waters should be permitted by the USCG. Which means if you sail thru my race course not only have you interfered with the racers, you have also, just by being there, violated COLREGS. Now usually racers don't care that much, and usually non-racers are polite enough to remove themselves from a course once the recognize it as such.



So every time you sail thru a race course and can't understand why racers are pissed its likely because not only are you being rude, you are also in violation of the COLREGS. Feel free to read the weekly notice to mariners that will detail the racing areas you are required to stay out of before yelling at racers who you are bothering.
__________________
Greg

- If animals weren't meant to be eaten then they wouldn't be made of food.
Stumble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-10-2014, 13:38   #71
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Boat: Custom Van De Stadt 47 Samoa
Posts: 3,755
Re: COLREGS - Sailing in an anchorage or mooring field

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
. Feel free to read the weekly notice to mariners that will detail the racing areas you are required to stay out of before yelling at racers who you are bothering.
Out of curiosity . . . Could you post an example please?

I was not aware that race permits gave exclusive use of the water to the racers. (Edit: Although, yes, I see that the "special local regulations" section could in theory do that).
__________________
estarzinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-10-2014, 13:47   #72
Registered User
 
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 6,066
Re: COLREGS - Sailing in an anchorage or mooring field

Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
If irrelevant, why post it again?
Because maybe I just don't see his point? It may very well be relevant?
__________________
Cadence is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 20-10-2014, 13:51   #73
Registered User
 
cwyckham's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Boat: Niagara 35
Posts: 1,870
Re: COLREGS - Sailing in an anchorage or mooring field

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
I have raced just about everywhere on the eastern seaboard, the Gulf of Mexico, and california. I can only think of two or three racers who would meet your description.

However last regatta I ran I had to call out the USCG to remove a spectator boat from our race course. The guy was pissed making much the same arguments that you are about racers not having special privlages.

However at least while on a racing course (as opposed to a distance race) every sailboat race in US territorial waters should be permitted by the USCG. Which means if you sail thru my race course not only have you interfered with the racers, you have also, just by being there, violated COLREGS. Now usually racers don't care that much, and usually non-racers are polite enough to remove themselves from a course once the recognize it as such.



So every time you sail thru a race course and can't understand why racers are pissed its likely because not only are you being rude, you are also in violation of the COLREGS. Feel free to read the weekly notice to mariners that will detail the racing areas you are required to stay out of before yelling at racers who you are bothering.
I've raced for years and never seen anything like this. Perhaps you're racing at an Olympic level or something like that? Or it's a US vs Canada thing?

All of our race courses are just a patch of water we race in. Many of them even cross shipping channels or in front of marinas, or just generally in crowded areas.

We are always governed by the colregs and we always obey them. We do appreciate when people give us the courtesy of some room, especially in light conditions (which is a lot of the time around here).

I also cruise English Bay, Vancouver, where there will be three different races, cruisers, and cargo ships all sharing. It works just fine and I give the racers room when I can because it's considerate.
__________________
cwyckham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-10-2014, 14:06   #74
Registered User
 
avb3's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Florida/Alberta
Boat: Lippincott 30
Posts: 9,913
Images: 1
Re: COLREGS - Sailing in an anchorage or mooring field

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
.......
However at least while on a racing course (as opposed to a distance race) every sailboat race in US territorial waters should be permitted by the USCG. Which means if you sail thru my race course not only have you interfered with the racers, you have also, just by being there, violated COLREGS. Now usually racers don't care that much, and usually non-racers are polite enough to remove themselves from a course once the recognize it as such.



So every time you sail thru a race course and can't understand why racers are pissed its likely because not only are you being rude, you are also in violation of the COLREGS. Feel free to read the weekly notice to mariners that will detail the racing areas you are required to stay out of before yelling at racers who you are bothering.
Looking this notice to mariners, and doing the search "race" there is only one case where there is any indication that the USCG is restricting non-racing vessels, and that is in this case:


Quote:
FLORIDA-ATLANTIC OCEAN-KEY WEST: Special Local Regulation for 2014 Key West
World Championship Race
The Coast Guard will be enforcing an existing Special Local Regulation for the 2014 Key West
etc. ....
There are numerous other races mentioned, but no mention of restrictions of any sort.

Perhaps you could clarify your comment that restrictions apply to every race, as it does not appear to be the case.
__________________
If your attitude resembles the south end of a bull heading north, it's time to turn around.
avb3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-10-2014, 14:15   #75
Registered User
 
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 6,066
Re: COLREGS - Sailing in an anchorage or mooring field

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadence View Post
Because maybe I just don't see his point? It may very well be relevant?
He did get back to me with a private message. His post was relevant when is could see were he was coming from.
__________________

__________________
Cadence is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
anchor, mooring, sail, sailing

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Entering a New Anchorage / Mooring Field / Dock FatBear Anchoring & Mooring 24 16-11-2010 21:40
Electrified Mooring Field? Mooring Power Mule Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 31 08-04-2010 09:00
Sarasota Bay Plans Mooring Field Amgine Cruising News & Events 28 20-01-2010 08:17
PLEASE SUPPORT GULFPORT MOORING FIELD cindydavis Meets & Greets 27 20-07-2008 02:42



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 13:41.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.