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Old 20-10-2014, 02:29   #46
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Re: COLREGS - Sailing in an anchorage or mooring field

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Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
It is a sad commentary on the knowledge and comprehension of the Colregs that there seems to be disagreement on stand-on/give way vessels in this situation.

It is clear-cut - there are no "vague" or "hazy" areas here. The Jboat was clearly the stand-on and the others the give way vessels.

Even arguing that the Jboat should have tacked earlier (to avoid the blue boat) is not necessarily true. The Jboat tacked when it became apparent that the blue boat was NOT going to give way as he is supposed to.

A true lack of understanding and comprehension of the Regs here, and unfortunately it is a lack that seems to be prevalent amongst many boaters.
yep I'm with you.

I can just imagine putting myself in this situation and frankly it would not have warranted a utube posting, not in my book. I observed the jboat doing nothing wrong at all, let alone acting recklessly. He's entitled to make his way up the river under sail and those under motor need to give way to him.

It seems to me that when people get on boats, especially bigger boats, there is an attitude that takes over the colregs and that's, 'I'm bigger so I have clear of way'.
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Old 20-10-2014, 02:36   #47
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Re: COLREGS - Sailing in an anchorage or mooring field

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In this case, the sailboat skipper is a freaking moron, even if he does have the right of way.
yep. And lucky
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Old 20-10-2014, 04:09   #48
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Re: COLREGS - Sailing in an anchorage or mooring field

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yep I'm with you.

I can just imagine putting myself in this situation and frankly it would not have warranted a utube posting, not in my book. I observed the jboat doing nothing wrong at all, let alone acting recklessly. He's entitled to make his way up the river under sail and those under motor need to give way to him.

It seems to me that when people get on boats, especially bigger boats, there is an attitude that takes over the colregs and that's, 'I'm bigger so I have clear of way'.
Adding onto Carsten's post and above.

Keep in mind that in a small boat under sail you want to be nice to your fellow boaties, so the captain of the J boat might have been aware of the blue boat at some point (possibly not when starting his tack) but since he was joining a channel had lesser a ?? right of pass ?? than the OP's boat following and may have been making a wider tack to accommodate that.

It is hard to judge possible speeds of another boats at times, perhaps the Jboat was just expecting the OP and boat to pass as soon as they were across their bow so he could tack again before coming across blue boats course.

Just a thought. So far I am not finding this Colregs thing black and white.

(feel free to slap me around until it becomes black and white )
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Old 20-10-2014, 04:57   #49
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Re: COLREGS - Sailing in an anchorage or mooring field

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..

(i) A vessel proceeding along the course of a narrow channel or fairway shall keep as near to the outer limit of the channel or fairway which lies on her starboard side as is safe and practicable.
...A vessel of less than 20 meters in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel that can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway.
....
(d) A vessel shall not cross a narrow channel or fairway if such crossing impedes the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within that channel or fairway. The latter vessel shall use the danger signal prescribed in Rule 34(d) if in doubt as to the intention of the crossing vessel.
....
(g) Every vessel shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, avoid anchoring in a narrow channel.
It seems to me that there are some confusion regarding these rules. They don't apply on the circumstances of the original poster. The rule d) and i) giving right of the way to vessels that can only navigate on that fairway regards vessels that due to his own size and the size of the channel have very restricted maneuverability and that certainly does not apply to the sailboats that where in the way of the jboat.

Regarding boats keeping to the limit, as starboard as possible on a channel, in what regards a sailing boat and a narrow channel that is simply not possible.

There are places, channels and ports where sailing boats (without engine) or boats not able to sail at a given speed are forbidden to sail, for safety reasons but that was clearly not the case.

On bigger navigation channels with heavy ship traffic, like on the Messina straight or Gibraltar you are required or to keep out of the channel (that does not occupy all the space), to sail on the channel on the right direction or to cross it at 90 angles, a rule many time forgotten by skippers that can lead to huge fines (thousands of euros).
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Old 20-10-2014, 05:17   #50
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Re: COLREGS - Sailing in an anchorage or mooring field

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[...] The rule d) and i) giving right of the way to vessels that can only navigate on that fairway regards vessels that due to his own size and the size of the channel have very restricted maneuverability and that certainly does not apply to the sailboats that where in the way of the jboat[...]
Also, note that COLREGS define "vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver" as "a vessel which from the nature of her work is restricted in her ability to maneuver as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel." A recreational vessel, even if she's the size of Queen Mary, does not fit this definition.
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Old 20-10-2014, 05:30   #51
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Re: COLREGS - Sailing in an anchorage or mooring field

I think J's and other such are so nimble that they can. But if they are getting under your bow, just give them some hell and they will know better.

What scares me is cruiser tubs thinking they are J's.

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Old 20-10-2014, 06:02   #52
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Re: COLREGS - Sailing in an anchorage or mooring field

Sailboat was stand on. The whole gist of this post is offensive to me as a sailor, especially coming from another sailor.......

Reckless? Seriously??? The only boat acting recklessly, by ignoring the COLREGS, was under power...

I can only suspect that if the boat was not a "J Boat" and instead a classic old, highly varnished wooden Herreshoff 12 1/2, or the classic cat boat below, this conversation would be very different.

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Old 20-10-2014, 06:38   #53
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Re: COLREGS - Sailing in an anchorage or mooring field

Sigh. I see this type of thing all the time on the street with cars and bikes/pedestrians. Bunch of selfish and self-centered people in some kind of hurry to get where (?) calling someone else who is in their way a dick. Very sad. Stupid title for the video. Can't believe who had right of way is even debated.
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Old 20-10-2014, 07:21   #54
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Re: COLREGS - Sailing in an anchorage or mooring field

I watched the video and in my opinion the sailboat has the right of way all the way. Both boats under power need to avoid it.

The sailboat operator is lucky he didn't have time to cross in front of the black boat, otherwise he could have been pinned between the moorings and the black boat with nowhere to go and no room to tack.
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Old 20-10-2014, 09:31   #55
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Re: COLREGS - Sailing in an anchorage or mooring field

Very British (and funny even if educative) movie about the Colregs, channels, ships and sailboats:

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Old 20-10-2014, 09:58   #56
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Re: COLREGS - Sailing in an anchorage or mooring field

I think the guy in the blue boat believes in the law of gross tonnage? And that is about it since he clearly has no idea about anything else.
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Old 20-10-2014, 10:21   #57
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Re: COLREGS - Sailing in an anchorage or mooring field

Some posters seem to be confusing 'motorboat in a moorage fairway' with 'commercial ship in a dredged shipping channel'.
A motorboat is not a commercial ship. Motorboats give way to sailboats.

In the OPs video, the sailboat reaches up a narrow fairway and then sails and tacks closed hauled up the wider fairway, Sailing is what sailboats do to get out into open water.

The dark boat is motoring up the narrow fairway to his port side, rather than to his the starboard side, Then the dark boat enters the wider fairway to his port side rather crossing to his starboard side. Even without the sailboat there, it seems the dark boat is unfamiliar with colregs and marine practice.

The OP appears to be motoring above no wake speed in an anchorage.

Go brush up on boater safety.
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Old 20-10-2014, 11:18   #58
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Re: COLREGS - Sailing in an anchorage or mooring field

I went out that same stretch of water that same day on Hawk, and one thing that particularly gets me here is that it is only about a .2nm (1000ft) constrained stretch of water, then it opens up into the river mouth. So just chill out, let the engine warm up, look at the pretty boats on the moorings, say hi to folks in their cockpits, at least until you get to the corner where it opens up.
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Old 20-10-2014, 11:24   #59
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Re: COLREGS - Sailing in an anchorage or mooring field

Here the ship is the stand-on vessel as it is in a narrow shipping channel. All the sailboats must maneuver around her. The ship hadn't run over my motor vessel: we were crossing her wake from starboard to port after she passed.

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Old 20-10-2014, 11:30   #60
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Re: COLREGS - Sailing in an anchorage or mooring field

Here's on for you: You are out sailing and a racing fleet overtakes you. You are not going the identical direction they are and one close by is pointing up causing you to change course. Are you required to allow him to sail his "best course" for racing? Is this a "mast abeam" situation?
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