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Old 02-12-2015, 10:10   #1
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Buy a strong boat.

and now, for a little info on why to buy a strong boat...
https://www.facebook.com/BenOlsaydim...4162202324790/
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Old 02-12-2015, 10:24   #2
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Re: Buy a strong boat.

Huuu that video is really old, the old lady doing well!!!!!
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Old 02-12-2015, 14:52   #3
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Re: Buy a strong boat.

Cheech,
Did you notice the boat appeared to be under-canvassed as it struggled through the short, steep waves? It barely had steerage. Hardly an enjoyable daysail.
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Old 02-12-2015, 14:59   #4
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Re: Buy a strong boat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
Cheech,
Did you notice the boat appeared to be under-canvassed as it struggled through the short, steep waves? It barely had steerage. Hardly an enjoyable daysail.
Yes, It appeared to me that he needed a bit more power. But hard to say I 'spose. Could have been left over seas after the blow passed, but I did notice that the jib stays pretty taught even down in the trough... so maybe it's blowing harder than obvious. Also appears to be on maybe a broad reach or even downwind... hard to control a mainsail jib combo. But ... hmm... the mizzen might be useful..? She appears to turn beam to when the video ends!
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Old 02-12-2015, 17:22   #5
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Re: Buy a strong boat.

I posted this video on a different thread a while back partly because it looked like a beautiful S&S hull, and partly to point out that a boat may appear to be in trouble when it really may not be. Sure the crew may be in danger of a wave washing over the deck, or severe sea-sickness, but it seems to me the boat is doing just fine in these seas. Yes it is under canvassed and needs more speed to give it more steerage, if they wanted to, but is it in danger here? I thought this might have been "Dorade" or "Stormy Weather" but she isn't, can't recall the name right now though. I read somewhere Olin Stephens commenting that the preferred heavy weather configuration is reefed mizzen and reefed main with a small headsail for his yawls, but with broad reaching like here the headsail alone is not necessarily a bad choice IMO, it just seems nobody is really minding the helm very well. I know my S&S boat does just fine with only a small headsail up and no main in larger seas/winds. It is less eager to broach and scoots along plenty fast.
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Old 02-12-2015, 18:37   #6
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Re: Buy a strong boat.

Just curious from a 2 yr old newbie...in a situation like that would it be better to have the main up and reefed? Just the storm jib out? or both? Or is it just a personal preference?

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Old 02-12-2015, 19:17   #7
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Re: Buy a strong boat.

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Originally Posted by Rainh2o2 View Post
Just curious from a 2 yr old newbie...in a situation like that would it be better to have the main up and reefed? Just the storm jib out? or both? Or is it just a personal preference?

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you communicate well for a 2 YO!
Well.. it depends on the boat, but some boats do not control well under main alone. It appears this boat is attempting to just sail with the weather, just using the jib may be making steering easier, also, with all that gyrating around, a mainsail on a boom would be swinging around wildly .... so it would need to be held to one side.... which with the turmoil of sea direction may be a problem if you have to steer the other way.
There are probably others here that have been in more of that type of stuff than me.
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Old 02-12-2015, 19:39   #8
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Re: Buy a strong boat.

Hard to tell how hard it is blowing exactly but I'd say a triple reef in the main would be ok but it will probably be more prone to broaching (rounding up really hard at the bottom of a wave risking a broadside from a breaking wave.) You'd have more drive for steerage though. I don't think that is a storm jib she's got up in the video, is it? I think I'd leave the mizzen furled until I was beam reaching. But with our long keeled hulls with attached rudders, that yawing (AKA wallowing) seems to be par for the course, in that particular wave period, if you don't get some drive and mind the helm better. It seems better to keep that drive out in front hence I keep the main furled on mine if running/broad reaching. Beam reaching I think I'd have the main up and reefed. But each boat has its own way of settling in. If this boat were broad reaching more it looks like it would have better headway and steerage. BTW the conditions look a bit worse than they are here due to the compressed perspective of the waves (is that a term, compressed perspective?) I only have my own relatively small long keel S&S hull to compare though so I could be off. Anyone out there with a larger long keel S&S or a Rhodes Reliant/41 out there to chime in?
edit: oh yeah I wouldn't have the main up there unless I was broad reaching. You can see in the video how easy it would be to gybe if you didn't have good steerage or helm control.
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Old 02-12-2015, 19:57   #9
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Re: Buy a strong boat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainh2o2 View Post
Just curious from a 2 yr old newbie...in a situation like that would it be better to have the main up and reefed? Just the storm jib out? or both? Or is it just a personal preference?

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The boat is way off the wind. Keeping it to a jib, low sail area & forward they don't have to worry about the wind on the main or mizzen shoving the stern around. We make 8 to 10 on the staysail storm jib alone in 25 to 30 down wind. We are 58 feet & 35 tons, probably about close to the same size.
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Old 02-12-2015, 21:19   #10
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Re: Buy a strong boat.

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The boat is way off the wind. Keeping it to a jib, low sail area & forward they don't have to worry about the wind on the main or mizzen shoving the stern around.
+1 on this. Especially the comments about the effects of adding more sail area aft. And I too, am in the camp of adding more sail forward to help things.

Also, a good drogue setup would likely do a lot in terms of improving steeriage/keeping them on course. Which would bump their comfort level up a few notches.

They do appear to have some things working for them correctly, or so it seems from the (short) clip. As they don't appear to be doing much in the way of rolling (relatively speaking). Nor with any sort of quick motion which could be associated with such.
Be it due to the boat's design, their tuning her for the conditions at hand, or both. Regardless, such a thing is a nice comfort for everyone in such conditions.

Um, so I'm curious. Why title the thread with regards to boat strength? As they're not taking any kind of poundings, etc.
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Old 02-12-2015, 21:28   #11
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Re: Buy a strong boat.

"Um, I'm curious. Why title the thread with regards to boat strength? As they're not taking any kind of poundings, or similar. "
I bet that boat is taking some pounding, but yeah it could be worse. I think more in terms of short fin keels on minimally thick hulls and the stresses related to that, hull flexing a glued-in grid and an unsupported rudder taking the obvious side loads.
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Old 02-12-2015, 22:28   #12
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Re: Buy a strong boat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
"Um, I'm curious. Why title the thread with regards to boat strength? As they're not taking any kind of poundings, or similar. "
I bet that boat is taking some pounding, but yeah it could be worse. I think more in terms of short fin keels on minimally thick hulls and the stresses related to that, hull flexing a glued-in grid and an unsupported rudder taking the obvious side loads.
Yes, I see it that way; strong in her lack of weak points. (that's why I love the old school boats) The hull and rudder (if it is an old school small, keel hung one) is not under great stress, although this kind of weather lends itself to preferring a tiller since there will be a lot of action in steering. (I always doubt cables and quadrants I can't see.) The rig with only the jib up is not unduly stressed but could be if a big gust comes up or there is a knock-down. I didn't see that potential in the video. But yes this video is great to show the potential for stress on rudders and perhaps some unusually weak keels. My own anxiety around spade rudders comes from crewing on a Frers 65 that had its enormous spade rudder snap off in seas not as large as those shown, but to be fair to Frers and the builder, the rudder had been previously damaged and this was way back in 1981. I am probably unnecessarily traumatized!
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Old 03-12-2015, 00:24   #13
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Re: Buy a strong boat.

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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Yes, It appeared to me that he needed a bit more power.
As another poster suggested, he probably could use a Jordan series drogue. Then the crew could go below, eat and rest. If they put on more sail, they better be topside sailing the boat.

I'm old and getting lazy. Why not take the easy way?

Paul
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Old 03-12-2015, 01:21   #14
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Re: Buy a strong boat.

Cant see what the fuss is about the decks still looked dry
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Old 03-12-2015, 02:09   #15
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pirate Re: Buy a strong boat.

Looks to me like she's running before with No2 or No3 jib.. nice easy motion and coping well.. no need for a drogue.. not going fast enough.. smart skipper..
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