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Old 28-04-2014, 09:10   #91
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
To use the automotive analogy, 99.999% of the time a Hyundai is fine, no need for "better" Engineering than that, but for that .001% of the time that I am in a BAD accident, I'd rather be in a Mercedes or similar.
Millions of people have driven Hyundai's for billions of miles successfully. That does not make a Hyundai equivalent to a Mercedes and we accept that.
Why do we try to make that argument about boats?
The Hyundai Equus and Mercedes E Class have a similar price range (although the Hyundai doesn't top out as high) and safety rating. According to JD Power Hyundai owners are more satisfied with their car too.

2014 Hyundai Equus Review: Car Reviews

P.s. I own neither car, nor have I owned either car. However I own an expensive auto that has had it's share of problems and car that cost less than half and it has had zero problems. Sometimes spending more money means you just spent more money, not gotten a better product.
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Old 28-04-2014, 09:47   #92
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

Catastrophic failure in a Beneteau, maybe a bavaria 46, not sure, same set up in the chainplate area around st marteen in fair weather , chainplate broke pulling and broken the hull and deck...
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Old 28-04-2014, 09:55   #93
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

I have a set of samples cut outs from the bottom in a bene 50 , diferent sizes and thicknes if any is interested to see it....
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Old 28-04-2014, 11:27   #94
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

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Originally Posted by Sailor_Hutch View Post
+1

The initial reports about this tragedy may be all-balled up. Initial reports often are full of inaccuracies. It seems that any debate about the the merits of this or that are premature. Do we even know for sure that the Grenada FB page references the correct boat?

BarbOak: Can you supply a direct link to the FB page?

Even if all the initially reported facts are true, the case may really be something to tuck away in the "stuff happens" folder. Keep it in mind and reference it only if it seems to be a strong pattern. Otherwise, no need to make waves. Even a steelie could have a weld made late on a friday or too early on a monday.
Actually underway from Culebra as we speak so not handy with the link but I

think you can look for Grenada cruisers FB page which has lots of info on this
boat. The owners have already responded on that site and seems like it was an aft bulkhead which was coming loose. Also of note to this forum is that this boat may be the one towed into Martinique after losing their rudder coming from Grenada earlier in the season.
I must note that in ten years sailing around the western and eastern Caribbean that there are many seaworthy Beneteaus everywhere we go. Many have gone through the canal and into the Pacific. Have seen a few ex charter ones which seemed too lightly built and flexing on boat yard trailers but many are better made.
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Old 28-04-2014, 12:00   #95
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

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Originally Posted by barboak View Post
Also of note to this forum is that this boat may be the one towed into Martinique after losing their rudder coming from Grenada earlier in the season.
Interesting - so they may be members of this forum? That should be good for a few thousand $, no?

Isn't anyone going to sing the praises of the rescue services?

Strange the direction this thread has taken almost from the beginning...

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Old 28-04-2014, 12:26   #96
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
To use the automotive analogy, 99.999% of the time a Hyundai is fine, no need for "better" Engineering than that, but for that .001% of the time that I am in a BAD accident, I'd rather be in a Mercedes or similar.
Millions of people have driven Hyundai's for billions of miles successfully. That does not make a Hyundai equivalent to a Mercedes and we accept that.
Why do we try to make that argument about boats?
That analogy is only half true. The Mercedes is faster than the Hyunday and is able to traveler faster. If the Beneteau is the Huynday and an old heavy boat the Mercedes then is the opposite since the old designed boat will be way slower.

The analogy will only be true in the case of a rare car crash were the older boat like the Mercedes will offer a better protection, but there is a catch there: We are assuming that the Hyundai and the Mercedes are both new. If we talk about a new Hyundai and a 30 year old Mercedes I would prefer to take my chances on the Hyundai. On an old car many things can go wrong.

A new Mercedes will be a recent XC Yacht or a Halberg-Rassy or an Allures and yes, in that case you are right even if in what regards speed the Beneteau in many conditions can still be faster.
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Old 28-04-2014, 12:47   #97
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

Quote:
Originally Posted by barboak View Post
Also of note to this forum is that this boat may be the one towed into Martinique after losing their rudder coming from Grenada earlier in the season.
.
Rudder nightmare at sea

This one?

Sent from my SCH-S738C using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
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Old 28-04-2014, 13:09   #98
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

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Originally Posted by Fiveslide View Post
Rudder nightmare at sea - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

This one?

Sent from my SCH-S738C using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
The couple that was rescued from the Blue Pearl was Leonard and Lisa. When Bluewaters2812 was looking for crew he signed off as Len on his last post. They were leaving the Turks mid April. Clearly, all evidence points toward this CF member.

With losing the rudder and having to be towed and now losing the boat it sounds like time for a new hobby. Glad they are all safe.
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Old 28-04-2014, 13:32   #99
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

With due respect, reading that thread, it looks like he had a custom emergency rudder made after that incident just in case.
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Old 28-04-2014, 13:39   #100
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

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Originally Posted by LakeSuperior View Post
The couple that was rescued from the Blue Pearl was Leonard and Lisa Rorke. When Bluewaters2812 was looking for crew he signed off as Len on his last post. They were leaving the Turks mid April. Clearly, all evidence points toward this CF member.

With losing the rudder and having to be towed and now losing the boat it sounds like time for a new hobby. Glad they are all safe.
Will be interesting to read the particulars. The Rorke's may have been able to use email while on the freighter to post to the Grenada Facebook page. The Bermuda Sun has them arriving in Bermuda sometime today. Apparently the dog Dexter is OK to land too.

Hope one of the Blue Pearl crew chimes in here to update the CF crew...
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Old 28-04-2014, 13:43   #101
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

Hmmm I wonder if…

Beneteau 50 - Few Questions

"I'm not sure that this thread is where I should ask the question, or whether I should start a new thread? I am wondering if anyone has had experience of converting a 3 cabin Beneteau 50 to a 2 cabin version? Is this a relatively easy conversion or can it not be done without great difficulty and expense? Anyone done this or know of anyone else who has?"
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Old 28-04-2014, 13:59   #102
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

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With losing the rudder and having to be towed and now losing the boat it sounds like time for a new hobby.
Sounds like time to get a properly built boat to me...

The Beneteaus I've sailed all seemed to be built on the principle of 'just good enough'. The deck hardware and rig is the most obvious case - just sufficiently well specified to get by most of the time, although the odd fitting was clearly starting to 'go' just under normal use. If Minaret says this is the same case with the hull, I trust him. Certainly, they're very, very light boats and that lack of weight has to come from somewhere, and essentially that 'somewhere' has to be the hull/deck and keel. Glueing bulkheads in to a liner that is already glued on to the hull will work fine under normal use until that big wave comes along. Having tanks held in place essentially by gravity works fine until things are thrown around a bit. Having a rudder stock made of a low-tech glassfibre layup is fine until you hit (brush against?) something. And on it goes.

Saying Beneteaus or Jeanneaus are intrinsically no different to Rustlers or Rassys is just silly. Certainly much of the increased cost of the latter comes from lack of economies of mass production, but it also comes from buying better equipment and spending more time on constructing the boat to a better standard. Rassy use partial liners hand-laminated to the hull, and Rustler don't use liners at all. Both tab the bulkheads to the hull and deck with fibreglass. Beneteau use full liners glued in, and then glue the bulkheads to the hull liner and often not to the deck at all. It works most of the time, but is just isn't as good when it gets really rough. I could drone on with plenty more examples.

Beneteau, Jeanneau, Bavaria, Catalina, Hunter and so on are all fine for coastal sailing, and offshore/ocean sailing in fair seasons, they're very reasonably priced for their size and have layout options optimised for charter and school use. They're designed to go after the big charter and sailing school markets and they totally dominate them with good reason. They're not designed or built to take repeated beatings from serious weather or make it easy for their crews to handle them in these conditions, as plenty have found out to their cost. They're not bad boats and they do the job they're designed to do well, but they're cheaper for a reason. The likes of Rustler and Rassy target the people wanting a boat not just with a higher quality handbuilt interior, but which is easier to handle in bad weather because they have deeper more seakindly hulls, heavier displacement and more ballast, and which have fittings and a standard of construction which allows them to take a beating offshore with less likelihood of sustaining damage. I don't see why people feel the need to defend one against the other, because they are designed for different markets and different purposes.
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Old 28-04-2014, 14:02   #103
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
To use the automotive analogy, 99.999% of the time a Hyundai is fine, no need for "better" Engineering than that, but for that .001% of the time that I am in a BAD accident, I'd rather be in a Mercedes or similar.
Millions of people have driven Hyundai's for billions of miles successfully. That does not make a Hyundai equivalent to a Mercedes and we accept that.
Why do we try to make that argument about boats?
correct, they are not equivalent. In the mercedes, you are paying for, finer finishes, greater levels of electronics, better sound systems, and of course the perception of higher "quality" results in a higher price point. Not to mention the costs of manufacturing a car in Germany.

The results on the ground, are that both cars will more then adequately carry you to your destination, equally Euro NCAP gives both the Mercedes C130 and the Hyundai a 5 star protection status, suggesting that both will take car of their occupants in an accident.

On the ground, the Hyundai will prove more reliable and offer you 5 years service free.

This is much closer to the truth in boats too. comparing some well known, virtually hand built, low volume supposed "high end" cruisers to high volume, mass assembled units will demonstrate that often underneath all that fine hand assembled teak, basically the underlying boat structures arnt that different, often using similar cored structures and similar equipment.

How much of that extra cost you pay for that boat is actually price point and high cost low volume manufacturing cost?

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Old 28-04-2014, 14:20   #104
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

I give up
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Old 28-04-2014, 14:21   #105
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

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I give up
If you give up, I want your boat. IP38's are on my list
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