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Old 28-04-2014, 05:19   #76
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
GBN... some folk are just incapable of seeing a wind up for what it is... any boat can sink...

A former (2) Bene owner..

I know, I know, owned 2 bennys myself, my wife thinks I,m just getting grumpier


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Old 28-04-2014, 06:26   #77
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

oh NOW the truth comes out.
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Old 28-04-2014, 06:43   #78
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

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Wait a minute. What happened to not drawing any conclusions until all the facts are in...
Mark
+1

The initial reports about this tragedy may be all-balled up. Initial reports often are full of inaccuracies. It seems that any debate about the the merits of this or that are premature. Do we even know for sure that the Grenada FB page references the correct boat?

BarbOak: Can you supply a direct link to the FB page?

Even if all the initially reported facts are true, the case may really be something to tuck away in the "stuff happens" folder. Keep it in mind and reference it only if it seems to be a strong pattern. Otherwise, no need to make waves. Even a steelie could have a weld made late on a friday or too early on a monday.
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Old 28-04-2014, 07:00   #79
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

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Even a steelie could have a weld made late on a friday or too early on a monday.
Extreme doubt. A spot weld on a steelie is worth 30,000 lbs. The rest of the weld is just to keep the water out.
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Old 28-04-2014, 07:02   #80
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

I think the Titanic pretty well settled the question of whether any boat can sink, and of course the way any boat is maintained and sailed can have a huge impact on its seaworthiness. But all this talk about the boats brand or construction not mattering seems pretty silly to me. Of course the boats construction matters! Some boats are built a lot more ruggedly and can take a lot more abuse than others. Beneteaus generally are not known for being among them. Yes, Beneteaus have successfully been all over the world and have logged many ocean crossings, so it's certainly possible to successfully cruise them, but they are optimized for coastal cruising in the charter trade in moderate conditions, not smashing into north Atlantic waves for extended periods of time. That said, who knows why this particular boat came apart? Not me, but if it was due to its light construction I'd be a lot less surprised than if the boat were of most other brands.
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Old 28-04-2014, 07:06   #81
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

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That said, who knows why this particular boat came apart? Not me, but if it was due to its light construction I'd be a lot less surprised than if the boat were of most other brands.
Like a Hans Christian losing steering, taking on water from unknown locations and water gushing in through ports in relatively benign conditions?

I am finding the tone of this thread both amusing and (unfortunately) predictable.

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Old 28-04-2014, 07:09   #82
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

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No children involved?
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+1. No kids
You have strange qualifications for human suffering and personal loss.

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Old 28-04-2014, 07:12   #83
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

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You have strange qualifications for human suffering and personal loss.

Mark
He didn't say the lack of kids was why they didn't deserve financial assistance, but rather was speculating on why the general response to this sinking by others who post here is so different from their response to the RH sinking.
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Old 28-04-2014, 07:16   #84
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pirate Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

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Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
He didn't say the lack of kids was why they didn't deserve financial assistance, but rather was speculating on why the general response to this sinking by others who post here is so different from their response to the RH sinking.
Not a CF Member maybe...??
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Old 28-04-2014, 07:19   #85
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

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Yes, Beneteaus have successfully been all over the world and have logged many ocean crossings, so it's certainly possible to successfully cruise them, but they are optimized for coastal cruising in the charter trade in moderate conditions, not smashing into north Atlantic waves for extended periods of time. That said, who knows why this particular boat came apart? Not me, but if it was due to its light construction I'd be a lot less surprised than if the boat were of most other brands.
Firstly they are not light construction, they are not designed for the charter market, ( they are often quite different variants) they are designed primarily as family cruisers. If you've ever been in the charter industry, you notice that strength and durability are key factors, what gets sacrificed is interior standards of fit and finish. Good charter boats are strong.

These boats are designed to operate in the home waters of the UK , Atlantic France and all around the coasts of Northern Europe as much as the Med. Hence they are easily able to take the conditions, " down south " in the milk runs. Equally those of you that have sailed parts of the Med, know that its one place that can beat up a boat, more then any ocean crossing.

I don't mind knowledgeable criticism, but just " having a go" at production boats, especially French ones, seems to be a feature of CF, usually by people who have either never sailed across any serious body of water, or never sailed these boats.

PS: nor do we really know anything about the situation of this particular boat

Dave
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Old 28-04-2014, 07:19   #86
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

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Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
He didn't say the lack of kids was why they didn't deserve financial assistance, but rather was speculating on why the general response to this sinking by others who post here is so different from their response to the RH sinking.
That is the same point, isn't it?

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Old 28-04-2014, 07:41   #87
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

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Firstly they are not light construction, they are not designed for the charter market, ( they are often quite different variants) they are designed primarily as family cruisers. If you've ever been in the charter industry, you notice that strength and durability are key factors, what gets sacrificed is interior standards of fit and finish. Good charter boats are strong.

These boats are designed to operate in the home waters of the UK , Atlantic France and all around the coasts of Northern Europe as much as the Med. Hence they are easily able to take the conditions, " down south " in the milk runs. Equally those of you that have sailed parts of the Med, know that its one place that can beat up a boat, more then any ocean crossing.

I don't mind knowledgeable criticism, but just " having a go" at production boats, especially French ones, seems to be a feature of CF, usually by people who have either never sailed across any serious body of water, or never sailed these boats.

PS: nor do we really know anything about the situation of this particular boat

Dave


I've certainly never crossed an ocean in a Bendi, but I have repaired a great many. You are nuts if you think "they are not light construction". This is the only brand I have ever seen take damage just from being blocked in a boatyard. The construction quality is truly awful. Just the viewpoint of a guy who has ground into a whole lot of boats, of all brands and types. Beneteau is the Bayliner of the sailing world-garbage. Not uncommon to see poor quality in French built boats. How come an American TPI built boat costs so much more than the same brand from France, despite the French having higher wages and more vacation time? Quality control, something those guys are apparently incapable of. Too busy taking smoke breaks in the middle of a layup, French style?
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Old 28-04-2014, 07:50   #88
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

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I've certainly never crossed an ocean in a Bendi, but I have repaired a great many. You are nuts if you think "they are not light construction". This is the only brand I have ever seen take damage just from being blocked in a boatyard. The construction quality is truly awful. Just the viewpoint of a guy who has ground into a whole lot of boats, of all brands and types. Beneteau is the Bayliner of the sailing world-garbage. Not uncommon to see poor quality in French built boats. How come an American TPI built boat costs so much more than the same brand from France, despite the French having higher wages and more vacation time? Quality control, something those guys are apparently incapable of. Too busy taking smoke breaks in the middle of a layup, French style?
You rabbit on about this, All over Europe ( which is the biggest market in the world for sailing boats), I see 1000s in boatyards and have never seen that comment. I have surveyed many boats, and I see no evidence of any particular and repeatable, structural issues

When Amtrak can build and run and deploy a train like the TGV, then Ill listen to you slight french engineering ( and it was a cheap shot Minaret), I suspect the TPI boats are dearer because of transfer pricing and the lack of the huge automation that the Beneteau french plant has.

When I chartered in the carribean, the Bennys and Jennys seems to handle the stress on chartering just fine, The US built Hunters were all wrecked !!.

If you examine carefully the more upmarket boats, what you see is more hand finishing, often the basic construction is not dissimilar.

Ive seen beneteaus hit rocks that broke a crewman's arm, with little damage to the boat.

The boat is rarely ever the issue in ocean rescues.
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Old 28-04-2014, 08:02   #89
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Firstly they are not light construction, they are not designed for the charter market, ( they are often quite different variants) they are designed primarily as family cruisers. If you've ever been in the charter industry, you notice that strength and durability are key factors, what gets sacrificed is interior standards of fit and finish. Good charter boats are strong.

These boats are designed to operate in the home waters of the UK , Atlantic France and all around the coasts of Northern Europe as much as the Med. Hence they are easily able to take the conditions, " down south " in the milk runs. Equally those of you that have sailed parts of the Med, know that its one place that can beat up a boat, more then any ocean crossing.

I don't mind knowledgeable criticism, but just " having a go" at production boats, especially French ones, seems to be a feature of CF, usually by people who have either never sailed across any serious body of water, or never sailed these boats.

PS: nor do we really know anything about the situation of this particular boat

Dave
I am lees biased then you since I never owned a Beneteau but I subscribe what you say. Particularly in what regards charter business that represents maybe 15/20% ( I saw the number but I cannot remember exactly) of the boats sold by Beneteau. The fact that Beneteaus and even more Bavarias are sold for charter is a tribute to its resistance and good relation price/quality not otherwise a symptom they are built for light duty. A 5 year charter boat has probably suffered and sailed more than most 20 year old boats, on the hands of careless sailors.

Of course those 20% have importance on the sales so boats that have a good relation price/quality have some versions specially designed for charter, the same way they have for Family sailing or living aboard for extensive periods.

Some years ago a couple bought a Bavaria 42, at the end of its charter live and practically without any modifications circumnavigated by the Northwest passage without any problem. I would not call deprecatingly to a Bavaria 42 a "charter boat" even if by their qualities it was one of the boats more used in charter work in their time.
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Old 28-04-2014, 08:39   #90
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

To use the automotive analogy, 99.999% of the time a Hyundai is fine, no need for "better" Engineering than that, but for that .001% of the time that I am in a BAD accident, I'd rather be in a Mercedes or similar.
Millions of people have driven Hyundai's for billions of miles successfully. That does not make a Hyundai equivalent to a Mercedes and we accept that.
Why do we try to make that argument about boats?
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