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Old 25-07-2014, 15:22   #361
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Location: Portugal/Med
Boat: Comet 41s
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
To pull a rudder, I guess you dig a big, deep hole under it?
Do most yards allow this, or is done another way like paying for the lift again?
I took my rudder out this year. It is a deep one, with about 2.00m draft. No hole was needed, just the normal stand.
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Old 25-07-2014, 15:41   #362
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

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Originally Posted by Bluewaters2812 View Post
Sailorboy1 -this was one of your posts - page 7

"I have a better lesson, don't smash your rudder on a rock, replace it in the water, never haul out the boat for inspection, then take it sailing across an ocean."

I would like to explain once more - that these are the facts.

1. We did have a survey.
2. We hauled out 3 times in 6 months.
3. The boat was not sailed across the ocean without inspection after the rudder was replaced.

I hope this clears up your confusion about the negative post and the facts and that we can move on.

Lisa Rorke
I am very sorry about your loss. I think that you like us are trying to understand how it could have happened.

Obviously it is not a systematic defect otherwise other Oceanis 50 had had that problem in what regards broken bulkheads. I believe several hundreds were built and many were sailed extensively.

The boat was bought by you used and even if surveyed, unfortunately a survey is not always able to detect all the problems on a boat and that boat had it a rock with a rudder with the previous owner. That impact can have (or not) also damaged the bulkhead. I believe these two posters had made a good summarize in what regards informative speculation, since without n expertise to the the damaged boat all we can do is speculate:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalier View Post
On our '99 461 the rudder stock and associated tube are separate from the 'most' aft bulkhead which separates the lazerette from the aft cabins, centerline fuel tank and engine space. It's apparent that the design and construction of the newer 50 is different from the 461 (Bruce Farr & Armel Briand), especially in the area around the rudder tube, and indeed the rudder stock which, from Blue Pearl's previous [apparent] posts, seems to have an odd use of materials.

While we're speculating:

What you're saying would make a lot of sense. If the 50 had the rudder post basically trunnion'ed or plated onto the aft bulkhead, then a heavy rudder collision could have caused ontold damage to the bulkhead region - something which could have been simply faired over and painted during a repair in a bad yard. I doubt a surveyor would have typically thought to look closely at a otherwise visually intact bulkhead.

A badly damaged rudder-tube support structure (which incidentally is a key structural element for the aft hull sections) mixed with a poorly balanced sail plan could easily have put enough dynamic moments onto the tube to cause it to completely separate from the bulkhead. That would have resulted in water pouring in through the lower bearing plate and poor vessel's hours would be numbered: attempting to strap down a rudder tube next to a disintegrated bulkhead in a small space at the back of the vessel in rough conditions wouldn't have been an easy task..
Quote:
Originally Posted by neilpride View Post
Hi , im here, lol, yes i say that about the structure in the bene 50, we refit a bene 50 3 years ago from the keel to the top of the mast, almost everything, this one is the chárter versión, 4 cabins , 4 showers toilets etc... we made 3 new holes in the bottom hull to install new trough hulls , the thicknes its ridiculous thin, thats why he sport a masive grid liner or pan liner glued to the hull, the bene 50 have only 2 full partial bulkheads, one in the front and one at the end dividing the steering system from the aft cabins, the rest are partial bulkheads resting in the liner at the bottom and glassed in the sides, plus a big partition bulkhead in the front of the mast step separating both fwd cabins, if i remember someone ask in a previous topic about removing this partition to make a single cabin , Gluppp!!!!

Anyway, the liner is glued with plexus, a pink color stuff kind of structural adesive used for multitude of builders with no problems at all if they are used for the right aplication, in the bene the wáter tanks are integral Fg glased to the liner under the cabin sole, well saying that ,,,, the boat flex,
....... how?? well flat sections of hull without support from the liner abound, we have a hard time to locate a rigid hard spot for the jackstands in the boatyard, mostly because the liner its hollow inside , and there is not bulkheads resting at the very bottom, result?? oil canning in the first attempt, and even the hull pushing the liner upwards making 2 cracks in the aft starboard cabin sole, releasing the jackstand and everything back to normal and relocating the stand again, a pain in the ass!!!

Same happen with the chainplates , with proper upper rigging tensión the hull where the glassed toggle conect with the rod put a lot of stress in this área , if you see any bene 50 out of the wáter look at this particular place from the outside in the bottom.. oilcaning ...anyway we sail the boat hard in the last Heineken regatta , we love it, lots of fun, and we keep it in nice condition all the time, next Project is to replace the rudder bushings... not big deal..

The part when i say this boat is very dependent of the liner integrity plus the 2 bulkheads its in my mind very true, 30 or 40 knts and big seas are not a problem, its just the angle ... 20 ft seas for 3 days its a bad punishment for this particular beneteau...
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Old 28-07-2014, 01:39   #363
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
I am very sorry about your loss. I think that you like us are trying to understand how it could have happened.

Obviously it is not a systematic defect otherwise other Oceanis 50 had had that problem in what regards broken bulkheads. I believe several hundreds were built and many were sailed extensively.

The boat was bought by you used and even if surveyed, unfortunately a survey is not always able to detect all the problems on a boat and that boat had it a rock with a rudder with the previous owner. That impact can have (or not) also damaged the bulkhead. I believe these two posters had made a good summarize in what regards informative speculation, since without n expertise to the the damaged boat all we can do is speculate:
They hit a rock just 6 months earlier, not the previous owners.
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