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Old 06-05-2014, 13:28   #301
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks



even more robots !
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Old 06-05-2014, 14:47   #302
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

Someday I will be able to embed videos like you can
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Old 06-05-2014, 14:51   #303
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

The precision is pretty amazing. But I think its the same two guys in every shot (designers, engine, fitting, hand truck etc)
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Old 06-05-2014, 15:17   #304
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

So both fools and experts are the only people who would attempt to circumnavigate in a production boat, the experts being safe and know how to survive in such a death trap, the fools must surely all die.

The argument leads to the average wanting the boat to save them, they feel as though they would be incapable of surviving in a production boat, but a hard core old school or well made (fancy expensive ) would be the only boat to be capable of saving them!

It appears like a little knowledge is dangerous conversation!

The simple reality is, a well read mcguiver type novice or old experienced old salt would survive on any type of boat, the less practical non diyers, would only leave on something they think is capable of lasting without their input/maintenance, or can afford crew to do that for them.
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Old 06-05-2014, 15:26   #305
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

So an expert fool has it made! I am going to have it made at some point
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Old 06-05-2014, 15:41   #306
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

Has anyone had the experience of requesting of Hanse, Hunter, Beneteau, Bavaria or Catalina give them information as to what (if anything) should be done to the boats before attempting a circumnavigation?

Perhaps their input would be very helpful. Of course, if they were not interested, that, too, would be interesting.

There's another issue, as well: I'm wondering how reparable these boats are. In the case of Blue Pearl, it did seem as if whatever did the first damage to its rudder (the hypothetical grounding), did more than just that, and at the time of purchase, the damage was not easily seen. I guess I'm having a hard time visualizing just how an owner can go about a better-than-new repair....

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Old 06-05-2014, 16:07   #307
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I see the superb hydrodynamic responses and resistance to breaching that many modern boats have, compared to older rudder attached designs etc. It all a design compromise.
I quite like my rudders attached, thanks... isn't that what kicked this whole thread off?
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Old 06-05-2014, 17:35   #308
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

Salty-robots are not all bad. A few years ago, I got to see a massive 7 axis router carve out a male plug for a 48' hull mold. They put a huge block ( about 18' x 50' x 12') of a composite material in the router, put a disk in the machine from the designer and then just turned it on. Took it about 6 hours to carve out a complete hull to a tolerance of 0.0001'. It was pretty amazing to see.
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Old 06-05-2014, 18:08   #309
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

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Originally Posted by JayCall View Post
Salty-robots are not all bad. A few years ago, I got to see a massive 7 axis router carve out a male plug for a 48' hull mold. They put a huge block ( about 18' x 50' x 12') of a composite material in the router, put a disk in the machine from the designer and then just turned it on. Took it about 6 hours to carve out a complete hull to a tolerance of 0.0001'. It was pretty amazing to see.

You're in Seattle, so I'd guess that was at Janicki? They talk a good line about tolerances, but as a guy who builds molds and parts based off their plugs, I can tell you it ain't all it's cracked up to be. Had one full deck from them come almost an inch off down one whole side! The problem was with the software, not the hardware, but there you go. Still a nightmare to fix. And, CNC routing a plug is not the same as doing a layup. Show me a robot that can do a hull layup, please! It doesn't exist.
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Old 06-05-2014, 18:21   #310
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

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Salty-robots are not all bad. Took it about 6 hours to carve out a complete hull to a tolerance of 0.0001'. It was pretty amazing to see.
That is a typo right? one ten thousand?
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Old 06-05-2014, 18:29   #311
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

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All jokes aside, a couple of points. Few if any high production European builders use lead anymore for keels cause it is a lot more $$, pretty much all cast iron these days. When lead hits something hard it deforms and in doing so absorbs a lot of the impact and stress which is a very good point in having a lead keel. Cast iron does not distort and allows the full impact to be made at the joint between keel and hull and the loads can often be more than designed for.
True with two exceptions:

1 -Only fast boats have the kind of narrow keel deep draft with a bulb that the Wauquiez has and will deform the keel in a way to absorb energy on a collision. Older cruisers with a lead keel have a kind of very thick keel many times without a bulb. That will not work on the vast majority of older cruisers that use those keels. These babies will not deform in any meaningful way:





2 -This type, that is the one increasingly used on cruising boats, even if made all of Iron is so much thin and narrow that will deform much more than those thick lead keels.



The reason iron is used on cruising boats has to do with a lesser cost but also with the small advantage an Iron/steel with a lead bulb has over an Iron/ steel keel with an Iron bulb. The CG of the keel with the lead torpedo is not significantly lower, only the torpedo is a bit smaller and that means less drag. That is only important for racing.

One of those modern all iron torpedo keel with a very narrow and thin foil is more effective in lowering the CG than an all lead keel. An all lead keel has to be a lot thicker and wide on its upper part. For the same total weight the modern all iron keel has a lower CG.
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Old 06-05-2014, 18:31   #312
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

“All yachts are equal, but some yachts are more equal than others.”

Some are of equal poor quality and sell for less, some are of equal average quality and sell for a little more. Others sell for substantially more, and are equal to other boats offering similar amenities and upgrades. Some boats are equal in their ability to be sailed successfully by the average weekend sailor on weekend coastal adventures... whilst others are equal in stout design to be sailed in safely in harsher conditions by more experienced crew.

Yes... “All yachts are equal, but some yachts are more equal than others.”
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Old 06-05-2014, 18:50   #313
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

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Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy View Post
...
Can you do passagemaking in a production cruiser? Of course. People do it all the time. Is it a prudent idea? Ask an insurer or a SAR person. One way or another, they have to pay for things going wrong at sea.
That's a very good point. They are not there to lose money and adjust the premium to the risks. Do they increase the premium to modern mass production boats that go bluewater more than they increase the premium of good bluewater boats made 20 or 30 years ago? No, quite the contrary, the premium of the old boat is twice bigger.

Some years ago when I had an almost new Bavaria 36 I asked an extension of the insurance to sail to Azores, all the Archipelago. Those are not easy waters neither the way from Portugal to there. Surprise: No increase on the premium

I was so satisfied that I recommended my company (Pantaenius) to a friend that was paying a much bigger premium for a 25 year old heavy bluewater boat, being the value of the boat only half of mine. surprise, the offer from Pantaenius was even higher than what he was paying on his company and almost the double of what I was paying to mine.
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Old 06-05-2014, 18:56   #314
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

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Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
..

Had a discussion on another forum about the newer Catalinas, which, the poster claimed, the factory told him had "chainplates you never have to service and they're buried in the fiberglass..." Ha! When I suggested that was "Nonsense" he took it personally, mistaking my response to what he was told to what he had typed. We managed to sort it all out offline. In any event, though, that's a disturbing "design concept" --- but, I do have him "hot on the trail" to discover that perhaps he misunderstood what he was told. At least, I do think he knows what a chainplate is...
...
What they mean is that when the chainplates give problems, in 20 years if one is lucky, the boat is to be ditched and you should buy a new one, preferably to them. After all it is what we do to cars.

Island Packet has the same type of chainplates and they are a lot more expensive than the Catalina.
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Old 06-05-2014, 19:01   #315
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

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Someday I will be able to embed videos like you can
On this site is easy: Just post the link, the one on top of the page.
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