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Old 29-04-2014, 16:39   #196
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

I still can't find that NeilPride post. Guess it never existed. Anyway, from my position, which is knowing absolutely nothing about Benis, is it possible that the broken bulkhead allowed for a more vigorous twisting of the boat in 25' seas, and subsequently that twisting action opened up some deck/hull seams? Purely speculative, of course, from one who knows nothing ... (about Benis)

Or they lost their rig (for the same reason) and were helplessly broached? While we're speculating?
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Old 29-04-2014, 16:52   #197
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
Hummm, I don't think so. The boat was found by sheer luck by a plane looking for the missing Malaysian plane and that's probably when the photo was taken.
Sheer luck and the epirb. Article talks about Distress beacon.



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Old 29-04-2014, 17:17   #198
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

You guys are missing my point: why would a cruising boat be miles and miles out at sea with no sails up and the cover on? Even if you're motoring, would you not have the sail ready to hoist at a moment's notice? The cover would not be put back on till one made port. Maybe it sunk close to port?

Now we can have more speculations zapping around with no data. :-(

With regard to the loss of Blue Pearl, or Rebel Heart, sure, we'd like to know exactly what happened to the boat. But maybe the loss of the boat makes it seem sort of pointless to write back to CF. They must have a lot more on their minds that satisfying our curiosity.

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Old 29-04-2014, 17:33   #199
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
You guys are missing my point: why would a cruising boat be miles and miles out at sea with no sails up and the cover on? Even if you're motoring, would you not have the sail ready to hoist at a moment's notice? The cover would not be put back on till one made port. Maybe it sunk close to port?

Now we can have more speculations zapping around with no data. :-(

With regard to the loss of Blue Pearl, or Rebel Heart, sure, we'd like to know exactly what happened to the boat. But maybe the loss of the boat makes it seem sort of pointless to write back to CF. They must have a lot more on their minds that satisfying our curiosity.

Ann
Yes, speculation just muddies the waters, and now I'm guilty of some of it. It seems that the number of instances of sinkings that are subsequently followed by in-depth reports of same are pretty scarce. I think in some cases (not sure about this one) the reluctance to report comes from the upcoming insurance claim, and the (probable) lawyer's advice to keep quiet on the matter until it's resolved. I don't know if these folks were insured or not, but I bet the standard procedure for any legal counsel is to advise clients to refrain from tell-alls until after claims are settled.

Then, there is the emotional factor. They don't even want to think about it anymore, and take up bowling.
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Old 29-04-2014, 17:37   #200
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

I noticed the sail cover as well, always nice to see a tidy sinking boat.
From the news report, it stated the plane was tasked to search for the boat after a distress beacon signal had been received.
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Old 29-04-2014, 17:38   #201
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

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Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
It can't be a blue water... Its windows are too big! And why isn't that guy in the doghouse bailing water?? That yacht isn't sunk yet-- It's just mostly sunk!
The remnants of a cyclone has just passed through the area which had affected the MA 370 search and the vessel no doubt was caught up.
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Old 29-04-2014, 18:30   #202
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

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Originally Posted by LakeSuperior View Post
I have been thinking about this and how could one have rudder damage that is not noticeable but yet be a big enough event to damage the bulkhead?

It may have been "not noticeable" when it was bought by these owners... But the previous owner may well and truly noticed it!

At least with an ex-charter boat they are obliged to tell you about all groundings. Are private sellers??
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Old 29-04-2014, 18:32   #203
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
When you say the rudder snapped off.. do you mean the stock snapped.. or the rudder snapped off the stock.
Here. I pulled in a summary of comments from his thread:

Rudder nightmare at sea

...when suddenly without warning our rudder sheared right off!...
...There is a rudder bearing that needs to be glued/epoxied...
...Yes, it was a horrible feeling watching an apparently intact rudder float away....
... I managed to dive under the boat and reach the prop and rudder area. From what I could see in the rough seas in the short time I could spend underneath the boat, it seems to have sheared the rudder post right off a couple of inches below where the rudder post exits the hull. I have taken some pics of the aft lazarette/hold, showing the internal post, steering quadrant, autopilot etc all intact, no water ingress, no cracks, zip damage inside. Not sure how to post pics here though and if that will help....
...I must stress that the rudder had been worked on before this happened after it clipped a rock. No other damage though. I am wondering whether there wasn't a hairline fracture that they didn't pick up and over the last two months it progressively deteriorated to a point it just snapped off....

Video here: Rudder nightmare at sea

...A fair question. It failed right about an inch or two as it exits into the water. It is a composite/fibreglass shaft, not SS. It does puzzle many when this sort of thing happens, as it really is something completely unexpected and out of the ordinary. As I said before, I will make sure I post about anything that we find once we get to the point of removal/replacement, which is hopefully sooner rather than later....

...ow ... the mystery begins. Was I "shafted" by the previous owner? We own a Beneteau Oceanis 50 hull number 80, so part of the hull number is 5080 (I think the 50 stands for the length of boast and the hull number for the year is no 80. I have found the following written/engraved on the rudder post: "cyclade5088"

Our hull number is 5080, not 5088 and we do not have a Cyclades. I will have to show it to the rep. Anyone of our good fellow sailors that can shed some light for me perhaps?...

PICS of BRoken Rudder Post: Rudder nightmare at sea

...Its only 6 years old being a 2007 model, that rudder post looks older to me. Time will hopefully shed more light for us. ...

...3. The rep asked there "experts" in Le Marin to have a look at the rudder post and give an opinion ... I was present at all times. They are of the opinion that sea water ingressed over a period of 2,3 or 4 years, which compromised a section of resin and this is where and why it snapped/failed). They were adamant that this was not recent....

4. Beneteau have advised that this is in fact a rudder/post for a Beneteau Cyclades (which is what I reckoned). They have said that the Cyclades and the Oceanis have identical rudders that are interchangeable. What they have conveniently not answered is my question as to whether it was at the factory that this particular rudder was fitted or whether it had been fitted to a Cyclades. It is important for me to know this because if it was not fitted by the factory to our Oceanis, then one of the previous owners replaced the original rudder and surely that would only be done because of damage. The bottom line is that either way, one of the previous owners in all probability clipped something that caused a hairline crack or similar that could not be seen by the naked eye. This then deteriorated over time to the point where we were the happy recipients of rudder loss at sea...

...Also, in the back of my mind, I would like to know why the surveyor never saw the degradation on the rudder post as this was the part sticking out of the hull where it snapped....

...replacement: Its a composite/firbreglass/resin….
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Old 29-04-2014, 18:36   #204
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

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Originally Posted by downunder View Post
The remnants of a cyclone has just passed through the area which had affected the MA 370 search and the vessel no doubt was caught up.

Why no sails bent? Cpuld have been a coastal hop too, that went awray. No dink, either.
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Old 29-04-2014, 18:51   #205
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
You guys are missing my point: why would a cruising boat be miles and miles out at sea with no sails up and the cover on? Even if you're motoring, would you not have the sail ready to hoist at a moment's notice? The cover would not be put back on till one made port. Maybe it sunk close to port?

Now we can have more speculations zapping around with no data. :-(

.....

Ann
Well, if it is a photoshop job "they" certainly deceived the world's biggest sail magazine since they posted the photo. I believe they are careful with the sources and should know from here that photo come and the author since they need an authorization to use it. It was also posted by a NZ newspaper:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...245224&ref=rss

http://lusakavoice.com/2014/04/27/rn...t-in-distress/
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Old 29-04-2014, 18:52   #206
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

They ask, "why was the crack not seen on survey"? Who do you think these guys are, clairvoyants? If you buy boats that have rudders that fall off, you should perhaps pay to have the rudder removed and inspected. Not part of a usual survey I think. I've watched surveyors and they usually make quick work of their task.
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Old 29-04-2014, 19:18   #207
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

Hey Monkey Man,

Nice post. I went to the link you provided to see the video of the broken rudder post. Unable to watch the video, but couldn't help noticing the snarky post by Eric Rebel Heart commenting on what kind of boat has it's rudder fall off.

Me thinks the folks on Blue Pearl have had more than their fair share of bad luck over the past year. Wishing them the best. I doubt they'll be purchasing another Beneteau... the same as us deciding not to buy a second Hunter. Some issues encoutered with a brand can't help but leave a bad taste. If they do decide to buy another boat, I'm sure the next one will be built like a battleship.

When the new owner of our Hunter surveyed the boat prior to purchase, he did have the keel carefully examined and requested all data for the repairs done, and he also had the rudder dropped and rudder post examined, primarily due to the number of failures he found online. It was a bit of a PITA at the time, but now I'm sure he has confidence in the boat.
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Old 29-04-2014, 19:27   #208
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Hey Monkey Man,

Nice post. I went to the link you provided to see the video of the broken rudder post. Unable to watch the video, but couldn't help noticing the snarky post
Good thing you never make any of those!
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Old 29-04-2014, 20:30   #209
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

Yeah, reading their rudder thread, just bad luck all around…the tow, the service, the survey, etc. Feel bad for them. Think they were wolfed by a previous owner. Don't understand the materials in that shaft!
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Old 29-04-2014, 21:13   #210
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Re: Blue Pearl Sinks

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Originally Posted by Sailor_Hutch View Post
Now I can't find the NeilPride post that I just referenced a couple messages before this. Either I misread something or am losing my mind. Maybe it's one of those kinds of threads...

Hi , im here, lol, yes i say that about the structure in the bene 50, we refit a bene 50 3 years ago from the keel to the top of the mast, almost everything, this one is the chárter versión, 4 cabins , 4 showers toilets etc... we made 3 new holes in the bottom hull to install new trough hulls , the thicknes its ridiculous thin, thats why he sport a masive grid liner or pan liner glued to the hull, the bene 50 have only 2 full partial bulkheads, one in the front and one at the end dividing the steering system from the aft cabins, the rest are partial bulkheads resting in the liner at the bottom and glassed in the sides, plus a big partition bulkhead in the front of the mast step separating both fwd cabins, if i remember someone ask in a previous topic about removing this partition to make a single cabin , Gluppp!!!!

Anyway, the liner is glued with plexus, a pink color stuff kind of structural adesive used for multitude of builders with no problems at all if they are used for the right aplication, in the bene the wáter tanks are integral Fg glased to the liner under the cabin sole, well saying that ,,,, the boat flex,
....... how?? well flat sections of hull without support from the liner abound, we have a hard time to locate a rigid hard spot for the jackstands in the boatyard, mostly because the liner its hollow inside , and there is not bulkheads resting at the very bottom, result?? oil canning in the first attempt, and even the hull pushing the liner upwards making 2 cracks in the aft starboard cabin sole, releasing the jackstand and everything back to normal and relocating the stand again, a pain in the ass!!!

Same happen with the chainplates , with proper upper rigging tensión the hull where the glassed toggle conect with the rod put a lot of stress in this área , if you see any bene 50 out of the wáter look at this particular place from the outside in the bottom.. oilcaning ...anyway we sail the boat hard in the last Heineken regatta , we love it, lots of fun, and we keep it in nice condition all the time, next Project is to replace the rudder bushings... not big deal..

The part when i say this boat is very dependent of the liner integrity plus the 2 bulkheads its in my mind very true, 30 or 40 knts and big seas are not a problem, its just the angle ... 20 ft seas for 3 days its a bad punishment for this particular beneteau...
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