Best sails for the Pacific?

[GrahamO]

I started another thread about the need for two poles. It has been very helpful but it quickly became clear that I was asking a premature question and I needed to land the sail inventory first.

We currently have the following (all Doyle except the asym):

1. Triple reefed stackpack main and storm tri-sail
2. 120% Yankee cut furling genoa
3. 100% removable furling stay sail
4. Asymmetric with ATN sock

We are likely to be sailing short handed so I am looking for a setup that can be adjusted by one person with minimal deck work. I had pretty much decided to replace the asymmetric with a Doyle furling UPS to ease the sail handling but there is some suggestion this is not the right way to go.

I would be very interested in guidance before I get back to the 'how many and what poles?' question.

Thanks!

[Paul L]

If it's any help on our couple years crossing and in the S Pacific we have used (off the top of my head estimates) the 100% staysail 80-85%, the 140% Genoa 15-20%, the asymmetric .5% of the time. In other words we rarely ever use the asym and use the smaller headsail most of the time. We are on a pretty decent performance boat with a lot of mainsail drive. Crossing is pretty much downwind, but heading to and from NZ is not.

[JPA Cate]

Graham, you want a storm jib, just in case. Do you have an inner forestay?, if not, you may want to fit one, just so you can have a storm jib on it. If you don't want to have to hank it on in heavy weather, then you have to put up with it being on a bag on the foredeck. We kept ours in a bag on deck, with its sheets attached. And it was in the way somewhat.

Our fastest days' run ever in our Yankee 30 was done on a storm jib, with the main all the way down. Your storm jib is there to help you keep making progress when it's too hairy out there, and there's nowhere to hide. You need it, and it needs to be tiny.

Our sailmaker told us that most storm jibs are too big, in his opinion. He is a frequent competitor in Sydney to Hobart races, so not a faint-hearted man.

You may not need the trysail. We've got by without one, all these years. Three reefs gets the main pretty small, and when it's too tough for it, we drop it all the way. Also, that saves having the trysail track added, and having to work around its bag. However, if the plan includes high latitude sailing, you may want it anyway. The problem, of course, is that you have to store them! Fortunately it is not a huge sail.

With a spinnaker pole, you will be able to pole out your 120 to windward, and have the 100 to leeward on those times you want to go wing and wing. We have found that works best on our boats, at sea when we over-trim the main, and have one or two reefs in it to make it flat, and it acts as a stabilizer, diminishing roll. When the sea is calm, you'll love your asymmetrical kite.

This is what has worked for us. The boats are somewhat different, and ymmv.

Ann

[zeehag]

i sola sail using mizzen and genoa. does me well. so far 6 yrs in mexican waters i have used main only 2 times

[roverhi]

If your boat sails well with the double headsail, jib and staysail, in 10kts of wind, you probably have the sails you need. You will use some form of the yankee, probably furled in the trades. Assume the Yankee has a foam luff so it will furl down to a 100% without getting too baggy. You'll spend 90% of your time under that rig, full jib and staysail, reefed jib and staysail, Jib only, staysail and reefed staysail only. For the light air stuff if you don't motor, the Asym.

Might think about a storm trisail. Your main in the third reef will probably be about the same size as the trisail but if you rip the main in bad weather you will be at a serious disadvantage in lighter conditions afterwards. If you tear up the trysail, it's not a disaster. The trisail also makes a nice steadying sail under power or Asym in light air but sloppy seas, read doldrums.

If your boat is essentially a sloop with a staysail stay, a 135% strong furling jib might be a better choice. Since your boat is an IOR era design, assume you have a large 'J' measurement which lends itself to a double headsail rig and sails you have.

[GrahamO]

Thanks Ann,
I was not completely clear.... the 100% staysail is on the inner forestay which, on a Bristol 38.8, makes it a pretty small sail - awesome for beating in 20kts+. It is well built and can be furled down to a handkerchief. I'm pretty happy with the setup for anything over 15kts. I agree with you about the trysail - oh well.

My problem is what to use in less tha 15kts downwind. I've not done much of that and I'm not totally convinced the UPS is the answer....

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Graham, you want a storm jib, just in case. Do you have an inner forestay?, if not, you may want to fit one, just so you can have a storm jib on it. If you don't want to have to hank it on in heavy weather, then you have to put up with it being on a bag on the foredeck. We kept ours in a bag on deck, with its sheets attached. And it was in the way somewhat.

Our fastest days' run ever in our Yankee 30 was done on a storm jib, with the main all the way down. Your storm jib is there to help you keep making progress when it's too hairy out there, and there's nowhere to hide. You need it, and it needs to be tiny.

Our sailmaker told us that most storm jibs are too big, in his opinion. He is a frequent competitor in Sydney to Hobart races, so not a faint-hearted man.

You may not need the trysail. We've got by without one, all these years. Three reefs gets the main pretty small, and when it's too tough for it, we drop it all the way. Also, that saves having the trysail track added, and having to work around its bag. However, if the plan includes high latitude sailing, you may want it anyway. The problem, of course, is that you have to store them! Fortunately it is not a huge sail.

With a spinnaker pole, you will be able to pole out your 120 to windward, and have the 100 to leeward on those times you want to go wing and wing. We have found that works best on our boats, at sea when we over-trim the main, and have one or two reefs in it to make it flat, and it acts as a stabilizer, diminishing roll. When the sea is calm, you'll love your asymmetrical kite.

This is what has worked for us. The boats are somewhat different, and ymmv.

Ann

[savoir]

If you decide to go with a single pole then you will be wanting something that can be sheeted from the toe rail. That means a staysail.

[Paul Elliott]

It sounds like others may differ, but I'm not so sure about the 120% yankee. You probably give up a lot of drive with the yankee, and you can always go to the staysail if you want to reduce sail area. We carry a 120% furling genoa with a slightly higher than normal clew (but far from a yankee) and it has served us very well in many Pacific passages.

I love my staysail. In really strong stuff we can completely furl the main and genoa, and with just the staysail we are balanced and under control.

[JPA Cate]

If the true wind is only 15, then the seas will be pretty calm, once they've settled down, and your asy should do you fine. When it was really light, we flew our full spinnaker. It's sometimes the only sail that will move the boat, and if we're ddw, we fly the staysail to leeward, as well, it's only good for .5 to 1 kn extra, but what the heck, eh?

Ann

[elandra65]

You haven't said what your plans are but i am assuming a Pacific crossing. If so give a lot of priority to downwind sailing as the breeze is likely to be 130-180 behind you and it is a long long way. A poled out headsail sailing wing on wing with mainsail will be the most useful and robust for typical 15-25 knot winds. Make sure the pole is strong and not a weak telescoping type. If weak el nino conditions the assym will be useful to keep you moving. These dont usually like ddw but poling out the headsail as well will help scoop wind into it. A sock is highly recommended to make handling easier.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by elandra65

You haven't said what your plans are but i am assuming a Pacific crossing. If so give a lot of priority to downwind sailing as the breeze is likely to be 130-180 behind you and it is a long long way. A poled out headsail sailing wing on wing with mainsail will be the most useful and robust for typical 15-25 knot winds. Make sure the pole is strong and not a weak telescoping type. If weak el nino conditions the assym will be useful to keep you moving. These dont usually like ddw but poling out the headsail as well will help scoop wind into it. A sock is highly recommended to make handling easier.

Good on you elandra. All our spinnakers have had socks. I forget to mention it because only when racing with crew did we remove the sock. I think they're essential for short handed sailing.

Ann

[Joli]

I agree with Ann, if it's light and you want to make good speed to leeward a kite of some sort if very helpful. A pole will rotate and project the kite to weather and you'll be using that same pole for running DDW with white sails. ATN type snuffers are a great option for the cruiser, not a big fan of top down furlers, sometimes they can over ride on themselves and you are stuck with a sail that cannot be furled or unfurled.

[GrahamO]

Thank you all! This is very helpful. I have dropped the idea of a UPS. Partly because it does not confer any particular advantage downwind and partly because it has no UV protection so needs to come down when not in use and it is heavier than my Asym to lug around. I Have an ATN snubber on the asym that seems to work fine.

This means that I actually have all the sails I need - that is good $$ news (for a change).

Back to my pole thread.....