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Old 02-02-2015, 18:07   #1
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Berthed too close in Marina pen

How much distance between boats is considered the norm when berthed in a commercial Marina pen that contains two boats.
Are there regulations on this?
For example the distance between the fingers may be 13 metres or 43 feet.
Two boats approx 40 ft long each.On one side you have a Cat at say 6.5 metres or 21 Ft wide on the other side you have a mono say 3.5 metres or 12?Ft allow say 1 metre or 3 ft for fenders and blow off you are left with a gap of 2 metres or 6.5 feet .If you have fenders on the outer side of both boats your down to maybe less than 6 feet.Hope my sums are correct
Is this considered enough room by most people to manoeuvre your boat in and out of?
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Old 02-02-2015, 18:10   #2
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Re: Berthed too close in Marina pen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirage Gecko View Post
How much distance between boats is considered the norm when berthed in a commercial Marina pen that contains two boats.
Are there regulations on this?
For example the distance between the fingers may be 13 metres or 43 feet.
Two boats approx 40 ft long each.On one side you have a Cat at say 6.5 metres or 21 Ft wide on the other side you have a mono say 3.5 metres or 12?Ft allow say 1 metre or 3 ft for fenders and blow off you are left with a gap of 2 metres or 6.5 feet .If you have fenders on the outer side of both boats your down to maybe less than 6 feet.Hope my sums are correct
Is this considered enough room by most people to manoeuvre your boat in and out of?
I sense you aren't so much asking a question as complaining about being put in too small a slip.

There is no "norm" but there's no reason you can't ask for a wider slip. Tell management that you aren't comfortable operating in such a confined space.
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Old 02-02-2015, 18:25   #3
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Re: Berthed too close in Marina pen

Sounds normal to me.
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Old 02-02-2015, 18:33   #4
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Re: Berthed too close in Marina pen

6' is a lot of room in my book.

And i would hope there are no "regulations" written to govern this sort of thing
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Old 02-02-2015, 19:39   #5
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Re: Berthed too close in Marina pen

Ok two answers that say OK or normal thanks.
No Im not complaining but have been fortunate to have the pen to myself for months and now feeling a bit uncomfortable due to wind and tide in the fairway I need to back in from and from what I can judge the gap between my boat is much narrower than any I can see in the Marina.
Easy to say talk to management about moving which I have already done and get along very well with them but in this part of the world there are a very limited number of marinas and most pretty much running better than 100% occupied this time of year especially for Cats that are already at a 1.5 times price premium.
I posted the question on the basis that if I cant work something out amicably with management I may have some factual ground to push my case.Of course I could always berth my boat a few hundred kilometres away from my house or sell my house but....or pay for the entire pen but again but....
Sail monkey I am curious as to why you wish for no regulations one this .
Chris
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Old 02-02-2015, 20:51   #6
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Re: Berthed too close in Marina pen

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Originally Posted by Mirage Gecko View Post
How much distance between boats is considered the norm when berthed in a commercial Marina pen that contains two boats.
Are there regulations on this?
I don't discount that an overly anal polity might exist that does have laws or regulations covering the issue, but I only know of 'guidelines', 'standards' and 'recommendations' for the issue.

And those guidelines and standards do not make statements about the distance between boats. Rather the guidelines and standards aim at the width of a double berth.

One relatively anal and bureaucratic polity, which may well be the one in which you happen to find yourself (should you have found yourself) in the present stage of your life cycle, has an "Australian Standard" for the width of a double berth.

Healthy use of the search engine of your choice should deliver AS 3962 in pdf to you. You might find opportunities to exchange money for it. But continued use of a search engine should send you to a Wordpress blog operated by Hamilton Island that will serve it to you freely.

The text for section 3.3.2 Berth widths reads:

"3.3.2 Berth widths
Based on the widest beams of monohull boats currently being manufactured, the minimum berth widths (the clear width between fingers or piles) are shown in Figure 3.2.

Berth lengths are taken to be the same as the boat length.

General expressions for berth width (b) are as follows:
(a) Double berth: 2 × design maximum vessel beam + 1 m up to 20 m and + 1.5 m above 20 m.

(b) Single berth: design maximum vessel beam + 1 m up to 20 m and + 1.5 m above 20 m.

(c) Multihull vessels can either occupy a double berth, or wider berths can be included, which specifically allow for single or double multihull vessels. The beam of a multihull may be up to 0.7L.

These dimensions may need to be increased to allow for larger fenders.

The maximum length of boat for which each berth has been designed should be clearly marked on the marina layout drawing.

For alongside berths, the minimum space between boats should be 0.2L up to 3.0 m. "

Healthy use of a search engine should show you other guidelines, such as '2005 Layout & Design: Guidelines for Marine Berthing Facilities', California Department of Boating and Waterways (California Division of Boating and Waterways).

The CDBW guidelines were meant to assist a developer to work out how many berths could be constructed in a certain area. Again, distance between berthed boats is not the focus. The focus is on berth area and berth width. And the CDBW guidelines distinguish between berths for powerboats and berths for sailboats.

To cut a long story short, look for:
"Section B4.3.1 Minimum Width for Double Berths of Same Length

Unless otherwise necessary, a double berth will typically be twice the width of a single berth of the same length."

Then read "B4.2.1 Minimum Single Berth Widths". That section contains the gems:
"Wsbp = 8 ln Lsb - 14 ft" (which translates as: Width of a single berth for power boats = 8 * log natural (Length of a single berth) - 14 feet); and

"Wsbs = 6.5 ln Lsb - 10.5 ft" (which translates as: Width of a single berth for sailboats = 6.5 * log natural (Length of a single berth) - 10.5 feet).

For myself, I agree with Sailmonkey. If I wanted to live in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, I'd already be there. I prefer living with guidelines and market freedoms. But that's just me. Your mileage may vary.

Al
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Old 02-02-2015, 21:03   #7
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Re: Berthed too close in Marina pen

Thanks Alan Mighty
I will read your post again and play with Google.
I think I see the error of my ways and now understand both your points of view I should have said guidelines not regulations .Chris
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Old 02-02-2015, 21:18   #8
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Re: Berthed too close in Marina pen

When we bought our boat, it was quite literally wedged into the pen. It was always touching one of the two boats either side of it, and if it twisted slightly, it could actually touch both at once.

In a way, it made getting in and out of the pen easier, as long as there were plenty of nice big bouncy buffer things around (and there were LOTS), you just kind of wiggled in there and tied up. And hey, if you forgot to tie up, you were kind of locked in anyway.

Yeah, alright, not the best setup, and I am glad we are not there now, but it just goes to show the range of what is normal. In our current pen I cannot get onto the boat unless I untie one side or the other and haul the boat over to the other side. It's a bit lonely really, I amost miss the cosiness.

Matt
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Old 02-02-2015, 23:42   #9
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Re: Berthed too close in Marina pen

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When we bought our boat, it was quite literally wedged into the pen. It was always touching one of the two boats either side of it, and if it twisted slightly, it could actually touch both at once.

In a way, it made getting in and out of the pen easier, as long as there were plenty of nice big bouncy buffer things around (and there were LOTS), you just kind of wiggled in there and tied up. And hey, if you forgot to tie up, you were kind of locked in anyway.

Yeah, alright, not the best setup, and I am glad we are not there now, but it just goes to show the range of what is normal. In our current pen I cannot get onto the boat unless I untie one side or the other and haul the boat over to the other side. It's a bit lonely really, I amost miss the cosiness.

Matt
Sounds like you have a finger either side I have my other boat berthed that way and love it.
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Old 02-02-2015, 23:59   #10
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Re: Berthed too close in Marina pen

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Sounds like you have a finger either side I have my other boat berthed that way and love it.
Yes, that's it and I suppose the upside is that damage from mistakes coming and going are likely to be limited to my own boat, unless I get it spectacularly wrong. But... kinda lonely all the same.

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Old 03-02-2015, 01:24   #11
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Re: Berthed too close in Marina pen

At least in the USA, I've never seen a requirement.


We usually want at least 1ft more than our beam to accommodate bumpers but we have flat bumpers than can cut that to around 8".


In Europe with Med Mooring, they just squeeze them together with bumpers and fit whatever they can fit.
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Old 03-02-2015, 03:29   #12
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Re: Berthed too close in Marina pen

One thing is clear to me now is that I thought I was not bad on the wheel and throttles of a boat but you guys now make me think Im next to useless.
Yes I know there is insurance but in more than 45 years of driving and boating I have never hit anything that has caused damage except a few times on the racetrack.
I like and look after my stuff and respect others so coming and going in to a berth next to someone else's boat with a combined cost on the upside of half a million $ and only a foot or two of clearance makes me uncomfortable to say the least .
Guess I need to suck it up or pay for an even more ridiculously priced berth with what I consider adequate scope.
Chris
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Old 03-02-2015, 03:42   #13
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Re: Berthed too close in Marina pen

if you think that is close, don't come to europe. we went into one marina and did a med mooring and had to pull our fenders as it was to tight for our fenders to pass the fenders on each side of us. right now we have probably 18" between boats and that is more than a lot we have seen.
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Old 03-02-2015, 06:02   #14
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Re: Berthed too close in Marina pen

Check out some of the charter company docks in the BVI! They squeeze more boats into less space there than I have ever seen anywhere else. Seriously. Go sit on the docks at The Moorings one afternoon, when all the charters are coming in at the end of the week, and henceforth you will feel like you have more room than you know what to do with!
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Old 03-02-2015, 06:25   #15
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Re: Berthed too close in Marina pen

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Originally Posted by Mirage Gecko View Post
Sail monkey I am curious as to why you wish for no regulations one this .

Chris

It's due to creep. If regulations are imposed for something as rudimentary for space in a pen (extremely variable based on pen age vs boats occupying it) then what comes next?


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