Bermuda: To Go or Not to Go . . .

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Microship

A sailor with no schedule always has fair winds.

-Steve

Hmmmm. there's gotta be a Capt Cook analogy...... If Capt Cook didn't have a time shedule he would have missed the girls on Tahiti!

LOL OK, I'll retire for the afternoon

I reckon a time sedule is great! Otherwise I'd never leave the pub.

[Ex-Calif]

I agree with the "Do the ICW" crowd. It will get you plenty of time on the boat together.

Pick some nice shore stops along the way. Plan on 2 weeks and take 3.

As an aside - Breaking the boat on any trip is a distinct possiblility. Often you have to have a bailout plan - fly home for example. This also requires that you leave your boat somewhere and get it fixed by remote control. Manageable but expensive. Finally you have to go back and get it. Another expense.

This could happen on the ICW trip. The difference is you are in your home country and the costs will be less.

[Hud3]

Originally Posted by Triton318

My 16 year old son and I are planning a three-week trip to Bermuda aboard our 28' Pearson Triton in June...

... Would those of you with a lot of experience/time at sea make this trip under these circumstances? I would greatly appreciate your thoughts on this matter. Thanks!

I did the passage from Hampton Roads to Bermuda and back in June, 2003 in our Island Packet 380, with my wife and another couple. We had some really rough weather both ways (old salts had told me you usually have good weather one way, and bad weather the other--ha!).

The passage took us 4-1/2 days each way. Six of those days (three each way) were in continual squalls, with 35-40 kt winds and confused, lumpy seas. Crossing the Gulf Stream on the return, we had 40-50 kt squalls, occassional boarding seas, and a lot of lightning. My below-deck autopilot couldn't handle the heavy, quartering wave action, so we hand steered through the worst of it. It was exhausting, and my wife decided that this would be her first and last offshore passage.

I can't advise you on whether to go or not--don't know your experience, nor your son's, nor your boat's condition. You might luck out and have a beautiful reach both ways in 16 knot breezes, with smooth swells and sunny skies. But I would suggest you think about whether the two of you would feel confident spending 72 hours straight in some pretty challenging conditions, if the weather decided not to cooperate.

Sailing with your son--just the two of you on a significant passage--is an experience to be treasured. A passage to Bermuda and back, if it went well, definitely would be a memory of a lifetime for you both. I just worry that you might be biting off a bit too much. Once you get a couple of days offshore, you're committed, and help can be hard to find if you really need it.

If it were me, I think a coastal trip would be a better choice.

[Triton318]

Thanks to all for responding to my post. I appreciate all of the good advice, suggestions, and thoughts.

If I had five thousands dollars in savings and four weeks of vacation time, we would go. I have every confidence in the boat and in our ability to sail her to Bermuda and back, even through heavy weather. But, without a windvane or a backup autopilot, and with only two of us, and having only three weeks, I've decided to do a trip up or down part of the coast instead.

For those who said, "Just go!" I hear you...I really do. But, I've waited so long, I can wait another 3 1/2 years. That's when I'm taking off for good, and believe me, I won't be taking any paid vacation time!

Thanks again!

[camaraderie]

Seems to me that you need some less demanding offshore work before heading on such a round trip. You could have a great time doing a Del-mar-va circumnavigation and getting some offshore experience on that OR you could head offshore to the East End of LI...montauk/greenport/block island which is a 3 day trip. Either one of these trips would provide fun, be do-able in your time frame and have the advantage of
1. Letting you pull in somewhere closer if problem are encountered.
2. Fitting beter into your time frame and allowing you to wait for weather.
3. Being less physically demanding.
4. Leaving the boat in an accessible place should problems develope that can't be quickly resolved.
5. Being within hailing distance of the USCG! (g)
Good luck however you decide.

[Morgan Paul]

Sail to Port jefferson, Long Island and I will take you and your son to dinner at a nice restaurant.

Paul

[Kanani]

Originally Posted by Triton318

Thanks to all for responding to my post. I appreciate all of the good advice, suggestions, and thoughts.

If I had five thousands dollars in savings and four weeks of vacation time, we would go. I have every confidence in the boat and in our ability to sail her to Bermuda and back, even through heavy weather. But, without a windvane or a backup autopilot, and with only two of us, and having only three weeks, I've decided to do a trip up or down part of the coast instead.

For those who said, "Just go!" I hear you...I really do. But, I've waited so long, I can wait another 3 1/2 years. That's when I'm taking off for good, and believe me, I won't be taking any paid vacation time!

Thanks again!

I surely respect that decission. I didn't want to pull the guilt trip on you but taking a 16-year-old on a voyage like that is a bit questionable, even if he is your son. If it were just you or you and another adult the decissions would be yours. However, when you involve a 16-year-old, things just have to be more positive IMHO.

Lots of people go cruising with even small kids. I don't see a problem with that as long as they are well equipped both mentally and physically.

In 3 years, you will probably be able to meet the physical demands of your boat (including wind-vane and new rigging). Also, it seems that your time constraints will be delt with.

Good decission.......shows the abitlity to be a good skipper. Skippering is a lot more about making wise decissions than it is about sailing skill.

[Kanani]

Originally Posted by camaraderie

Seems to me that you need some less demanding offshore work before heading on such a round trip. You could have a great time doing a Del-mar-va circumnavigation and getting some offshore experience on that OR you could head offshore to the East End of LI...montauk/greenport/block island which is a 3 day trip. Either one of these trips would provide fun, be do-able in your time frame and have the advantage of
1. Letting you pull in somewhere closer if problem are encountered.
2. Fitting beter into your time frame and allowing you to wait for weather.
3. Being less physically demanding.
4. Leaving the boat in an accessible place should problems develope that can't be quickly resolved.
5. Being within hailing distance of the USCG! (g)
Good luck however you decide.

Sorry but I've gotta take exception to this one.

This guy seems to have a lot of sailing experience. I don't think that it's about his experience at all.

My wife and I sailed to Hawaii from Long Beach Ca in January '84. That was our first time at sea and we only had basic sailing lessons and some story reading. DUMB?????? well maybe....maybe not. We got the worst ass whoopin' that we ever got. We had 7 major cold fronts in 31 days at sea. We had a lot of soul searching going on during and after that passage but guess what........we went on to do 2 circumnavigations, spent 14 years cruising and I went on to get my 100-ton captains licence.

It is more about getting your vessel in A-1 condition to handle what can be thrown at it. If all hell breaks loose and the skipper & crew fall apart, most vessels can fair pretty well on their own in almost any conditions, with the crew cowering in the bilge. That has been proven time and time again. I can't tell you how many sailboats have been found drifting at sea months after it had been abandoned by the crew.

Yes, I truely believe that the crew is the weeker link and that's OK and the way that it should be. In fact, it would serve most sailors well to understand that fact. Maybe they would get to know their vessels better and stay with their vessels longer when the S%#@ hits the fan.

Please don't get me started on #5........that can NEVER be an option (mentally).

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Kanani

My wife and I sailed to Hawaii from Long Beach Ca in January '84. That was our first time at sea and we only had basic sailing lessons and some story reading. DUMB??????

I don't think thats dumb. You learn quickest when you have to. Also sailing is not guiding the space shuttle to the moon. Do a big trip first and then a lot of the elements of sailing are put into perspective. Working for 3 years to learn to do a few miles off shore means that in 3 years you still don't know how to do off shore. Go now and in 3 years you will have learned much much more, 3 years worth more.
OK a 28 footer and a 16 year old are the problem areas...as is my recolection of a Triton. There was a Triton 24 built in Sydney in the 1970's that I don't think I like the idea of going 3 laps around the southern ocean, but the one you guys are talking about is apparently a fine seaworthy boat that laps up a lap round the world: Pearson Triton this website shows some of the voyages and also shows its lines.

Maybe this boat is just the sort of small ship that should be teaching those not so experienced how to tackle an ocean passage.

If Bermuda is too far for this 3 week spot maybe you could use the time by doing some deep ocean hops. Say straight out 100 miles and back, then out 200 and back. In 3 weeks you would have crosed the Gulf Stream a few times, gone upwind and down at sea, learned to navigate, learned how to deal with equipment etc and have 600+ ocean miles under your belt. And still be close enough to shore if you pansey out and need a hotel for the night.

If you really need to see the ICW just do an image search on Google or get someone to send you a postcard

Mark

[camaraderie]

Kanani...understand your points but respectfully disagree...small old boat in unknown TRUE condition but limited budget stated, NO offshore experience, 16 year old crew, concerned about personal stamina, minimal time frame AND misgivings on the part of the OP.

The fact that others like you have made such passages successfully does not mean it was a prudent decision. There are currently 3 vessels missing and unnaccounted for off the West Coast...so some make it and some don't. Some of us are more comfortable with higher risk levels than others...he asked for opinions and mine was that a more limited offshore passage given all of the above was a more prudent option especially with a minor involved. All offshore sailing involves risk but I prefer mine a bit more manageable...as adults we can each make those decisions for ourselves as Triton318 apparently has and I commend him for his prudence.

As to #5...I did put a grin there...last resort not to be undertaken lightly.

[Triton318]

I've continued reading the posts on this thread since posting my decision to not go to Bermuda this summer. I just wanted to make a couple of comments.

• Properly rigged and with some minor modifications, the Pearson 28' Triton is more than capable of crossing oceans. I have every confidence that my boat, despite its age of 45 years, could make the trip to Bermuda and back. I have no reason to believe I would lose the mast in a storm. My concern was, if it did happen, it would be a problem because I had a finite period of time before having to return to work.
• Someone's comment about my lack of offshore experience really bothers me. Every single person who is out there successfully crossing oceans at one time had no offshore experience. You have to go some time. I've been sailing for 35 years--on Lake Michigan, the Gulf of Mexico, and the Chesapeake Bay. Just because I've never made a 623 mile ocean crossing doesn't mean I'm not capable of doing it.
• I also take exception to the suggestion that taking my 16 year old son on this trip would have been irresponsible. I would never knowingly put any of my children in harm's way. As I said in my original post, I have every confidence in our ability, and the boat's ability, to make the trip.

If there were no time constraints and if the boat was equipped with a windvane or spare autopilot and if I had some cash for unexpected contingencies, we would go. Thanks again for the comments.

Happy holidays!

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Triton318

I've been sailing for 35 years

Whoa, back! You didn't mention that in your previous posts.
I think we thought that your sum total sailing experience was pretty close to zip. So for an inexperienced sailor to go to sea with a totally green 16 year old is a bit on the extreme side. Thats why people have made the comments above, probably.

Some 16 year olds are good sailors, quite experienced enough to do a passage. I was 17 when the 3 handed boat I was on came second in the 1/4 ton Worlds (It was an American boat - I was really trying to sabotage it so an Australian boat could win! )

And if you don't tell people a material fact how can people give you good advice? Sailing for 35 years is a material fact that you should have mentioned in your initial post.

Now we know that you've sailed for so long my advice is the same as my 2 previous posts: 1) Go to Bermuda and who cares if you are back a few days late or 2) If time is constrained go do a few deep ocean hops 200 miles +

My thoughts on the benefit of crossing the Gulf Stream a coupla times are even stronger for someone who has done a lot of non tidal / non current sailing. Just navigating with a set is a fun experience (OK its only fun if you are lee bowing!) let alone the different shape of waves when the wind is with or against the set.

After 35 years in still water its something you could really enjoy!


All the best

Mark

[slomotion]

Actually, Triton318 said he'd been sailing for 32 years in his orginal post. I don't think anyone really questioned his ability or his boat - it was mostly a matter of the dangers of making a multiday offshore passage with limited time and no money for possible contingencies.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by slomotion

Actually, Triton318 said he'd been sailing for 32 years in his orginal post. I don't think anyone really questioned his ability or his boat .

Oh OK *Blush*

Sorry!

I'm off to the quack to get some glasses!!

And then to school to do some readin riting and other lessons that I skipped at skool cos I was smoking behind the sheds!

Wheres that 'lil dunces hat?


Mark

[TaoJones]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Some 16 year olds are good sailors, quite experienced enough to do a passage.

Or to set out on a solo circumnavigation, completing it at age 20.

Robin Lee Graham - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

TaoJones