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Old 20-05-2013, 02:02   #91
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GILow's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Boat: Swanson 42
Posts: 3,585
Re: Beating Home Alone and oh so Slow

For those that wonder if I am still following all this, I certainly am, and the issues are of great interest to me, even if they have ever so slightly digressed (one of the true joys and strengths of CF I say!).

Sadly, Adelaide has declined into the land of absolutely no wind. Don't believe any forecasts you might have seen, days forcasting 20 - 25 knots have been lucky to produce 6 knots. I know, we had to cancel our proposed Port Vincent jaunt when there was not enough wind to move the boat, despite a forecast of 20 knots.

In desperation I went out this weekend and setup the staysail, without its boom, just to make sure I would know what to do if/when the wind did arrive. Glad I did so, I made a total mess of the whole job and it took me the better part of twenty minutes to get the sail set correctly.

Sadly, all this was in 4 - 6 knots of wind, so aside from looking rather pretty, it achieved little except that I now had THREE sails flopping around apathetically while I wallowed two miles off shore. I fear, from a lay-person's perspective, it probably looked like washing day on board.

Still, ready to try it all when the wind comes back.

On the whole rigging thing, I observe the following:

1. Having the roller furled genoa on the rear of the two stays works well for me as tacking is easy.
2. Trying to tack without rolling up the genoa with the staysail stay in place is pointless. I suppose my sails are pretty solid, but the genoa just would NOT pull through the gap of about two feet between the rearmost of the two forestays and the staysail stay.
3. I've never observed tension (or lack of tension) issues on the dual forestay arrangement on Manera, but I will pay extra attention now having read these discussions.

Thanks all for the thought provoking discussions, and I am very sorry to hear about your dog bail-me-out. Maybe next time take a cat, they need less space on the twig and might be used as a fishing implement in extremis.

M
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Old 20-05-2013, 03:56   #92
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Re: Beating Home Alone and oh so Slow

Thanks for the update, shame you've had no wind. but good to hear your giving it a go anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GILow View Post
.
1. Having the roller furled genoa on the rear of the two stays works well for me as tacking is easy.
Yep a big advantage in your situation, but it does make the other stay mostly redundant, it being almost impossible to tack anything hanked to the outer stay. Though I did just have the thought that the sail could be tacked if desperate by just letting it tack inside the roller and putting up with the ugly luff? Might make it hard or impossible to drop on the 'bad' tack... apparently the old dipping luggers sometimes short tacked up a river like this, without dipping the whole sail.

If they are the other way around the furling sail can always be rolled up to tack. But the inner stay really should be set up so it can be removed and tied back to mast most of the time. But on balance it probably isn't worth changing your setup for a while. Have you got any sails for the outer stay?

Quote:
2. Trying to tack without rolling up the genoa with the staysail stay in place is pointless. I suppose my sails are pretty solid, but the genoa just would NOT pull through the gap of about two feet between the rearmost of the two forestays and the staysail stay.
Yes can be a real b++stard in light airs. In stronger winds the sail will sometimes blow through easily if the staysail is set and left backed.

Quote:
3. I've never observed tension (or lack of tension) issues on the dual forestay arrangement on Manera, but I will pay extra attention now having read these discussions.
Just make sure the loose forestay can't get caught in the furler. It shouldn't, but if it did...

I noticed you said you had a staysail boom. Many people hate staysail booms, but I quite like them if they are set up right. They make tacking the sail very easy, and control it well in heavy airs and when reaching. You need port and starboard preventers led back to the cockpit to control the boom plus a permanent topping lift. A jackline on the lower two meters or so of hanks will make it much easier to drop.

Cheers

Ben
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Old 20-05-2013, 04:55   #93
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Re: Beating Home Alone and oh so Slow

Ben,

There are two sails I can use on the forward stay, the staysail itself and the storm jib. Both are setup with hanks and, as you suggest, would have a horrid luff on one tack but could work. I suppose I could treat the forward stay more as a kind of safety feature, in that it supports the mast in the event of the other forward stay should fail under load from the genoa/yankee. Then I could use the inner staysail stay for either of the two sails fitted with hanks should the need arise, with the added advantage that the centre of effort is brought closer to the middle of the boat. (Which comes back to my original problem about beating to windward in crap conditions.)

The only other sail I have is a Yankee, which is setup to fit on the roller furler, which is one of those dual channel sort. Can't say I see the advantage of these, since I figure you'd need to be a magician to get one sail to go up while the other is coming down.

The staysail boom will be interesting to test. Unfortunately it needed an alen key to fit it, and I just ran out energy, but I noticed that if I pretended to be a boom on the sail by pulling the clew aft, it held a much nicer shape and felt like it was drawing better. Also, I really like the idea of a self tacking sail up forward, though it is a bit small so I am not sure how much help it will be. Again, I suspect this is one of those setups that suit long haul sailors who change tack about once every few days, which my boat certainly used to do, travelling between Australia and Vanuatu. Here in Adelaide I find I run out of room after a few hours and have to change tack too soon.

Fingers crossed for some good testing winds...
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