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Old 01-05-2013, 18:09   #31
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Re: Beating Home Alone and oh so Slow

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Well, sounds like the staysail might work or might not.

I am certainly going to give it a try, and will post a thread on my observations of its performance compared to the partially furled jib. Yes, there's a bit of drag on the furled jib to consider also, but if you've seen a picture of my Swanson 42 you'd see that there is so much windage already it's hard to take that extra windage seriously, and at least it does seem to roll up suprisingly tightly.

Sadly I am dragging around a lot of "stuff" topsides, and the boat has a pretty serious freeboard, so windage will always be an issue for me. Hence I have read the thread on coming into a pen in a 30knot crosswind with great interest. At the moment my solution to that particular problem would be to use one of the spare guest marina pens at our club... but I don't think that really counts as a solution.

Matt
I have a lot of freeboard and that's exactly what I did in a similar situation. I really don't like bumping into other people's boats.
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Old 01-05-2013, 18:32   #32
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Re: Beating Home Alone and oh so Slow

last time i got caught going south off the coast north of broken bay in a southerly change, i reefed down and did a 4 hour tack out to sea and back, worked out i'd made about 2 miles southwards - my gps amended my arrival time at sydney from 14 hrs to 172 hrs or something thereabout. The joys of sailing...
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Old 01-05-2013, 18:39   #33
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Re: Beating Home Alone and oh so Slow

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last time i got caught going south off the coast north of broken bay in a southerly change, i reefed down and did a 4 hour tack out to sea and back, worked out i'd made about 2 miles southwards - my gps amended my arrival time at sydney from 14 hrs to 172 hrs or something thereabout. The joys of sailing...
Ouch. That's one of those times you start checking the kitchen cupboards to see if the coffee supply will hold out.
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Old 01-05-2013, 18:44   #34
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Re: Beating Home Alone and oh so Slow

[QUOTE=daddle;1224964].... But since I'm in paradise I just change my destination.
/QUOTE]

Oh, so you live in Adelaide too?
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Old 01-05-2013, 19:01   #35
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Re: Beating Home Alone and oh so Slow

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I've heard the argument before that a bit of racing is good for refining your sailing technique, and this is a case in point where I suspect a good racing sailor would have found the best compromise between pointing and speed through the water. How much of that is instinct vs experience I don't know.
I don't think it's instinct. I think it's the cheating one does when racing. Some boat scoots past you and you check how they have their sails set... And copy them!

Cruisers underestimate the skills racing hones. It doesn't need to be with spinnakers, most clubs have No Extras divisions etc.

One thing that always surprised me was how hard some racers push their boats.. And then back at the club house either bleat about all the geer they broke, or didnt break. The ones that didnt break kit but could push their boats showed me how far a yacht can be pushed.

I would love to have a race against a couple of Beneteau 393s because I am totally sure I would pick up more tips in an afternoon of "cheating" than I've learned in the last few years.

Have fun
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Old 01-05-2013, 19:28   #36
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Re: Beating Home Alone and oh so Slow

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I don't think it's instinct. I think it's the cheating one does when racing. Some boat scoots past you and you check how they have their sails set... And copy them!
I once crewed for my wife's boss in a race, and I spent the whole race wishing he would copy any of the boats that sailed past us like we were standing still.

He subsequently bought a VERY fast boat. He still loses, just by less than before.
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Old 01-05-2013, 19:43   #37
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Re: Beating Home Alone and oh so Slow

For those who sail in parts of the world where some seasons provide consistently strong winds, it's definitely worth thinking about changing to a smaller sail on the furler for those periods.

I think that some cruising sailors have drunk the Koolaid, to some extent, in that many simply assume roller furling is an efficient way of reefing a sail for sailing hard on the wind. "If it didn't work, why would everybody be using it?"

Even with double swivels, foam luffs etc, the point is fairly quickly reached where the main advantage of a headsail as opposed to a mainsail, namely a clean leading edge, is lost.

For those of us who live in highly variable wind regimes, I think one solution which is under-rated or overlooked, is to equip roller headsails with slugs. This makes it almost as easy to change headsails as hanks do.

On the right boat, a well-cut #3 jib, with a couple of rolls in it, can go to windward like a charm in the sort of breeze where another five knots would be storm jib territory.

Changing between headsails with boltropes at sea is difficult at best when shorthanded, and not a safe option when the weather has already degenerated.

It might be possible to make it safe by judicious addition of dedicated, well thought-out eyelets in conjunction with a well-located downhaul line using a stand-up snatch block on the foredeck - but slugs are much easier.

They have to be very low profile to keep the luff 'clean' when rolled. Kiwislides are the best-known (and highly regarded, proven) solution, or one of a number of configurations can be home-made if you're handy.

Most cruising sailors detest sailing to windward. It shows, in the way they lay out their galleys and stowage, in the headsail gear they select, as well as the boats and itineraries they choose.

It becomes a circular proposition, I reckon, or perhaps a self-fulfilling prophecy.

To me, going to windward is a bit like climbing mountains, in that it better prepares you to enjoy skiing down them.

I'm with the OP on motoring. Motoring to windward is like using a chairlift: practical, but hardly satisfying.
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Old 01-05-2013, 19:52   #38
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Re: Beating Home Alone and oh so Slow

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For those who sail in parts of the world where some seasons provide consistently strong winds, it's definitely worth thinking about changing to a smaller sail on the furler for those periods.

I think that some cruising sailors have drunk the Koolaid, to some extent, in that many simply assume roller furling is an efficient way of reefing a sail for sailing hard on the wind. "If it didn't work, why would everybody be using it?"

Even with double swivels, foam luffs etc, the point is fairly quickly reached where the main advantage of a headsail as opposed to a mainsail, namely a clean leading edge, is lost.

For those of us who live in highly variable wind regimes, I think one solution which is under-rated or overlooked, is to equip roller headsails with slugs. This makes it almost as easy to change headsails as hanks do.

On the right boat, a well-cut #3 jib, with a couple of rolls in it, can go to windward like a charm in the sort of breeze where another five knots would be storm jib territory.

Changing between headsails with boltropes at sea is difficult at best when shorthanded, and not a safe option when the weather has already degenerated.

It might be possible to make it safe by judicious addition of dedicated, well thought-out eyelets in conjunction with a well-located downhaul line using a stand-up snatch block on the foredeck - but slugs are much easier.

They have to be very low profile to keep the luff 'clean' when rolled. Kiwislides are the best-known (and highly regarded, proven) solution, or one of a number of configurations can be home-made if you're handy.

Most cruising sailors detest sailing to windward. It shows, in the way they lay out their galleys and stowage, in the headsail gear they select, as well as the boats and itineraries they choose.

It becomes a circular proposition, I reckon, or perhaps a self-fulfilling prophecy.

To me, going to windward is a bit like climbing mountains, in that it better prepares you to enjoy skiing down them.

I'm with the OP on motoring. Motoring to windward is like using a chairlift: practical, but hardly satisfying.

I would agree with that most of the time, but he described a particularly tough mountain climb, and I would have turned the engine on. But I would have played with the sails first to see if I couldn't get things going. I don't mind sailing upwind.
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Old 01-05-2013, 19:59   #39
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Re: Beating Home Alone and oh so Slow

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I'm with the OP on motoring. Motoring to windward is like using a chairlift: practical, but hardly satisfying.
Interesting metaphore in that I prefer cross country skiiing to downhill. I had never connected the two.
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Old 01-05-2013, 20:02   #40
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Re: Beating Home Alone and oh so Slow

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I would agree with that most of the time, but he described a particularly tough mountain climb, and I would have turned the engine on. But I would have played with the sails first to see if I couldn't get things going. I don't mind sailing upwind.
It was a tough climb, and if I started to worry about safety rather than comfort, please be assured, I would have started the engine.

I just felt, after the journey, that I could have done it better, and judging from the advice here, there are few things to be tried with sail setup that might have made it a quicker journey.

If it turns out I was as well setup as could be then I'd be happy to do the whole thing again. I just love sailing, as long as I am not putting myself or anyone else in pointless danger, I'll always take the slow way home.
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Old 01-05-2013, 20:04   #41
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Re: Beating Home Alone and oh so Slow

I feel that this is where my Yankee - a tall slim foresail- comes into its own? The great thing about sailing up wind in those conditions is with that, a small staysail, third reefed main and mizzen, the boat balances perfect. This is also where you benefit from hank on sails. Nonetheless, it is slow progress, but time to relax. No embarrassment making a slow passage in these conditions.

There is not a lot you can do about those blustery conditions. Especially.into the wind you have to set sail for the maximum gusts. If you put yourself into a knockdown something is likely to break. I have been caught sailing in similar conditions downwind of late. It plays havoc with the tiller pilot. I would be stoked yours handled it. As mine is on the blink anyway, I have been stuck for ten hours at the helm.
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Old 01-05-2013, 20:13   #42
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Re: Beating Home Alone and oh so Slow

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I feel that this is where my Yankee - a tall slim foresail- comes into its own? The great thing about sailing up wind in those conditions is with that, a small statsail, third reefed main and mizzen, the boat balances perfect. .
Hey SurferShane, would you mind elaborating a bit here for me?

The Swanson 42 has a yankee that can be attached to the furler, plus a staysail on a separate detachable forestay set back about 3 feet from the bow. Is this the sort of setup you found works on your boat?

Matt
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Old 01-05-2013, 20:25   #43
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Re: Beating Home Alone and oh so Slow

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Hey SurferShane, would you mind elaborating a bit here for me?

The Swanson 42 has a yankee that can be attached to the furler, plus a staysail on a separate detachable forestay set back about 3 feet from the bow. Is this the sort of setup you found works on your boat?

Matt
Yes, although mine is a ketch upwind is where that cutter rig using the Yankee comes into its own. When I first bought the boat I left it too late to sail back from QLD to NSW. The old salt off the Gladriel at Gladstone got my sails out and showed me the rig. As he warned me, it was slow progress, but I made it to NSW against constant headwinds and seas.

Sail trim literature also recommends tall slender sails to wind.
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Old 01-05-2013, 20:55   #44
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Re: Beating Home Alone and oh so Slow

Oh, I should add it is my opinion that too many people rely solely on a big furled Genoa when these old rigs really do work. When you read up about it there are all sorts of theories about how the sails work together. The Swanson will also look gorgeous under Yankee, stay sail and main.
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Old 01-05-2013, 21:33   #45
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Re: Beating Home Alone and oh so Slow

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Oh, I should add it is my opinion that too many people rely solely on a big furled Genoa when these old rigs really do work. ... The Swanson will also look gorgeous under Yankee, stay sail and main.

Yes to the first point.

VERY Yes to the second.
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