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Old 25-04-2018, 12:05   #1
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Back down with the windlass or the snubber?

Conundrum: We usually let out 2/3 or so of our ultimate scope and set the anchor. Then we let out the full amount and give one more tug. Then we attach the bridle and let out the 12' or so needed to position the bridle below the waterline. So here's the question: Should I be backing down (twice) on the windlass or somehow back down on the snubber only? It would be a huge PIA to put the snubber on 3x to do our current procedure. I should point out that we have an all-chain rode.

What to you folks do?
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Old 25-04-2018, 12:25   #2
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Re: Back down with the windlass or the snubber?

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Originally Posted by RichandHelen View Post
Conundrum: We usually let out 2/3 or so of our ultimate scope and set the anchor. Then we let out the full amount and give one more tug. Then we attach the bridle and let out the 12' or so needed to position the bridle below the waterline. So here's the question: Should I be backing down (twice) on the windlass or somehow back down on the snubber only? It would be a huge PIA to put the snubber on 3x to do our current procedure. I should point out that we have an all-chain rode.

What to you folks do?
Neither! Belay the chain with your chain lock or chain belay strop.
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Old 25-04-2018, 12:48   #3
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Re: Back down with the windlass or the snubber?

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Neither! Belay the chain with your chain lock or chain belay strop.


+1

If you donít have a chain stop besides the snubber you really need one!


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Old 25-04-2018, 12:58   #4
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Back down with the windlass or the snubber?

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Originally Posted by Sailmonkey View Post
+1

If you donít have a chain stop besides the snubber you really need one!

Attachment 168731


I used to not have one, now that I do itís sort of a PIA.
I have the one in your photo, and canít drop the anchor anymore without being there to hold the chain stop gate open or the chain running through the stop will trip the gate and lock itself.
You could almost as easily put a hook onto the chain and use that to back down on as opposed to a chain stop.
If you do add a chain stopper, spend the bucks for a good one, and go to extreme measures to ensure its mounted as strong as possible.
I added the chain stop as a last chance safety measure, other than that, Iím not sure I really like having the thing myself.Click image for larger version

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Old 25-04-2018, 14:46   #5
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Re: Back down with the windlass or the snubber?

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I used to not have one, now that I do itís sort of a PIA.
I have the one in your photo, and canít drop the anchor anymore without being there to hold the chain stop gate open or the chain running through the stop will trip the gate and lock itself.
You could almost as easily put a hook onto the chain and use that to back down on as opposed to a chain stop.
If you do add a chain stopper, spend the bucks for a good one, and go to extreme measures to ensure its mounted as strong as possible.
I added the chain stop as a last chance safety measure, other than that, Iím not sure I really like having the thing myself.Attachment 168733


Weíve got the maxwell version. I had the same problem as you. So it added nylon washers to each side for friction. Now when open it stays open, only downside is that it wonít close by itself, but with a gentle push of the toe it locks the chain.
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Old 25-04-2018, 15:22   #6
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Re: Back down with the windlass or the snubber?

No, you shouldnít be loading your windlass like this (although many probably do).

My solution is similar to a chain stop, but without the PITA factor . Iíve rigged a chain hook on a short chain leash attached to a well-backed hard point just forward of my windlass. With this I simply hook the chain and then back down on this. I can quickly hook or unhook as needed.

Works well for us, but you have to have a well-backed attachment available.

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Old 25-04-2018, 15:45   #7
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Re: Back down with the windlass or the snubber?

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
No, you shouldnít be loading your windlass like this (although many probably do).

My solution is similar to a chain stop, but without the PITA factor . Iíve rigged a chain hook on a short chain leash attached to a well-backed hard point just forward of my windlass. With this I simply hook the chain and then back down on this. I can quickly hook or unhook as needed.

Works well for us, but you have to have a well-backed attachment available.

I feel a bit dumb. I already own the same setup that you use. I have a sturdy hook attached to a dyneema leash which I use as backup to my snubber while anchored and to secure the anchor while under way. I even have a cleat next to my windlass. I just need to use the gear to back down while setting. Problem solved!
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Old 25-04-2018, 15:52   #8
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Re: Back down with the windlass or the snubber?

Why do you "set" the anchor with 2/3 of your ultimate scope out?

Probably because someone told you that is the right way, but it is NOT.

Don't back down until you have your full scope out. In fact, don't "back down" right away at all!

Think about it for just a second... If you drag in the initial attempt, what is your response? LET OUT MORE SCOPE! So just let it all out at the beginning, and do NOT drag your anchor across the bottom until it is ready to really dig in. Dragging the anchor before it has all the scope it need to dig in risks fouling it with debris, grass clumps, and other stuff.

That is the procedure recommended by Rocna with an explanation of why:

Anchor Setting Tips | Rocnaģ Anchors

And if you don't believe them, surely you'll believe me...

https://fetchinketch.net/boat_though...oring-is-easy/
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Old 25-04-2018, 17:05   #9
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Re: Back down with the windlass or the snubber?

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Originally Posted by Sailmonkey View Post
+1

If you don’t have a chain stop besides the snubber you really need one!

Attachment 168731
Don't have one and believe it or not don't have room for one since we installed the big anchor.
Even had to lose the swivel which I was going to remove anyway.

Don't back down on the anchor either but simply let the weight of the boat set it on the snubber using the same victory hook Mike has above.
Never had a problem yet. Anchor always sets where its dropped.
Never dragged, even in 80knots.
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Old 25-04-2018, 17:23   #10
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Re: Back down with the windlass or the snubber?

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Don't have one and believe it or not don't have room for one since we installed the big anchor.
Even had to lose the swivel which I was going to remove anyway.

Don't back down on the anchor either but simply let the weight of the boat set it on the snubber using the same victory hook Mike has above.
Never had a problem yet. Anchor always sets where its dropped.
Never dragged, even in 80knots.
Just a guess here but I reckon the weight of your boat does a better job of setting the anchor than most of us here could hope for using the back down using most of the available horsepower principle.
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Old 25-04-2018, 17:34   #11
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Re: Back down with the windlass or the snubber?

I always just back down on the windlass. I dont back down full bore though and my windlasses have always been a bit oversized. Usually maybe 1500 rpms at the most. I start gradual and build. My theory is if the wind builds real high, the anchor will dig in more, or, even max rpm will not match it anyway and has nothing to do with the usual wind shift that accompanies a major blow.
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Old 25-04-2018, 18:07   #12
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Re: Back down with the windlass or the snubber?

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Just a guess here but I reckon the weight of your boat does a better job of setting the anchor than most of us here could hope for using the back down using most of the available horsepower principle.
At 65 tonne I am guessing you are correct.

First time I backed down with the supreme on we instantly stopped and almost lost footing and I was fully expecting the telegraph post sized Sampson post to get ripped from the deck.
Won't be doing that again.
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Old 25-04-2018, 18:48   #13
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Re: Back down with the windlass or the snubber?

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post

My solution is similar to a chain stop, but without the PITA factor . I’ve rigged a chain hook on a short chain leash attached to a well-backed hard point just forward of my windlass. With this I simply hook the chain and then back down on this. I can quickly hook or unhook as needed.
We do pretty much the same.
Get the boat drifting backwards.
Drop anchor to bottom then lay chain at same rate as we are drifting until we have deployed 5 times the depth in rode.
Clip on short leash.
Bring revs up to 2000 in reverse and verify we are stationary for a while.
Drop revs
Attach elastic snubber which gives us another 5m of effective rode.
Reattach short leash as backup.
Clean up / have drinks on deck while checking transits to verify all good.

I like backing down because it gives me some reassurance that the anchor has dug in. We have a little tension on it as we lay the chain out which I figure gets the anchor starting to dig in, backing down just confirms it.

Dive the anchor if we get the chance.

Mike
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Old 25-04-2018, 20:38   #14
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Re: Back down with the windlass or the snubber?

I let out my planned scope, leash the chain, back down at @ 1500 RPM, then set the snubber. I don't have a chain stop and adding one would be a major modification.

As for just drifting back vs. power setting the anchor, I like knowing that the anchor is actually set. I can't think of any valid reason not to power set but I suppose someone will provide one. It's an anchoring thread after all.
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Old 25-04-2018, 21:21   #15
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Re: Back down with the windlass or the snubber?

I can see letting out 2/3 for the purpose of feeling if the anchor is biting or not but not trying to fully set it that way. In my neighborhood I am often suspicious that the anchor may have landed on a loose lump of kelp and will not set, so I test it to see if it is biting. If it is I let it all out and set it firmly. If you are worried your cleat or Samson post may not be up for it, you need a new cleat.
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