Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-04-2016, 20:25   #16
Registered User
 
Snore's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: St Petersburg
Boat: Tartan 33
Posts: 1,879
Attaching reefing line directly to cringle cuts line aloft

Roverhi

I think you are over engineering. One bowline and you are good. This is how inhale my boat set up.

Check out this video - it has some great tips by a sailmaker on how to set up the clew.


Sent from my iPhone- please forgive autocorrect errors.
__________________

__________________
"Whenever...it requires a strong moral principle to prevent me from deliberately stepping into the street, and methodically knocking people's hats off- then, I account it high time to get to sea..." Ishmael
Snore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2016, 20:26   #17
Senior Cruiser
 
jackdale's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 5,040
Images: 1
Re: Attaching reefing line directly to cringle cuts line aloft

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Isnt that a function of where the block is, not the line?

That depends on the size of the boat. On a small boat the leech reefing line can come to a block and then a cleat on the boom. The reefing line is hardened then cleated off.

On a bigger boat the leech reefing lines is tied off with a bowline around the boom, up to the leech reefing cringle (or block) , fed through the boom end, existing the boom at the goose neck, and then is either hardened with mast mounted winch or fed back to a cockpit winch.

The leech reefing line is hardened from two different directions.
__________________

__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203,204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
jackdale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2016, 20:31   #18
Senior Cruiser
 
jackdale's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 5,040
Images: 1
Re: Attaching reefing line directly to cringle cuts line aloft

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snore View Post
Roverhi

I think you are over engineering. One bowline and you are good. This is how inhale my boat set up.

Check out this video - it has some great tips by a sailmaker on how to set up the clew.


Sent from my iPhone- please forgive autocorrect errors.
+1

Good video. The safety line is great advice.
__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203,204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
jackdale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2016, 21:23   #19
Moderator
 
Don C L's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Channel Islands, CA
Boat: 1962 Columbia 29 MK 1 #37
Posts: 4,372
Images: 34
Re: Attaching reefing line directly to cringle cuts line aloft

Quote:
Originally Posted by foojin View Post
The other day a rigger was aboard my boat. As an aside, while dropping the main, I bemoaned the mess of reefing lines. I have slab reefing.

He asked why, rather than running the lines up to the clew cringles and back down to the boom, I didn't just clip the line directly to the cringle. That would reduce the amount of line.

He said lots of people do it, and we went on to other business.

Anyway, he's put a bug in my ear. It's not something I've noticed and don't think it has been a feature on any boat I've actively sailed.

Anyone do this? What sort of hardware do you use? Chaffing is a bit of a worry.
Lots of people do it? On what kind of boats? If I understand it correctly, the reef line is not "clipped" on to the clew cringles of the reef points, but tied on right? Or was he suggesting you actually clip the (one?) reef line on to each cringle? Could be tough on a windy day. Got a boom gallows? But if you have a single reef line that is not anchored to the boom what holds the clew down? Can't maintain the main's shape that way.
__________________
DL
Pythagoras
1962 Columbia 29 MKI #37
Don C L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2016, 10:30   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Hailey, ID
Boat: Gulf 32 & Nimble 20
Posts: 348
Re: Attaching reefing line directly to cringle cuts line aloft

OK, had to go visual on this because I need to see it in my head... I am two weeks away from setting up slab reefing on our Gulf 32 so want to be sure I get this right.

It sounds like the OP's question related to whether you run a line from the boom up through the leech cringle and back down to the boom, or you just run a line from the boom up and secure it to the leech cringle.

I was planning on doing the latter, as I have done the same thing on a previous (albeit) smaller boat. On the smaller boat I just used a big stopper knot through the cringle, this time I plan on just a simple bowline. It seems to me you get no mechanical advantage by going up through cringle and back down, that is only a 2:1 with loads of friction in it, so it's essentially just a change of direction at best. One of the reasons I'm not doing single line reefing this time is the whole thing just seems to have so much friction on it it's not very effective.

After the OP's original post, most of the replies (including the good video, thanks) seem to be dealing with the angle of the pull, not whether you run TO the leech cringle or THROUGH the leech cringle back to the mast.

I believe (but seriously, about to do this, don't want to do it wrong, please prove me wrong) that that can be taken care of with correct mounting of the cheek blocks so when the appropriate leech cringle is down at the boom the reef line is pulling the cringle at about a 45 degree angle... DOWN to the boom and BACK toward the aft end of the boom, to provide appropriate foot tension.

I guess I could see an issue where just tying off to the cringle you end up pulling your sail to one side of the boom slightly, which could cause problems long term, but I think if I were going to have a reef in for days (which I won't any time soon) I would be able to secure it a little better with some spare line.

Anyway, attached is schematic for my plan for the rear lines for our Gulf 32 (luff reef points will go onto the reef hook, not my favorite but what we'll use for now)... there's nothing on the boom right now, and no reefing system at all, so I do get to do this from scratch meaning I hope I can mount the cheek blocks appropriately.

-- Bass
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Reef lines.png
Views:	105
Size:	25.5 KB
ID:	122533  
__________________
basssears is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2016, 10:31   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Oakland CA
Boat: Morgan 46 ketch
Posts: 238
Smile Re: Attaching reefing line directly to cringle cuts line aloft

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
On a bigger boat the leech reefing lines is tied off with a bowline around the boom, up to the leech reefing cringle (or block) , fed through the boom end, existing the boom at the goose neck, and then is either hardened with mast mounted winch or fed back to a cockpit winch.
I assume mounting reefing winch on mast was just an inadvertent error . The reefing winch and its cleat is always mounted on the starboard side of the boom. If it was mounted on the mast, the reefing line tension would change depending on how the boom was trimmed. Mount on starboard side because then your most convenient tack for reefing will be the starboard tack. This will least technically, give you right of way over port tack sailboats while reefing.

I have always had and liked slab reefing on my boats, but currently my biggest problem is tying off the excess at the foot. We have a big center cockpit enclosure which makes it impossible to reach a couple of the ties near the center of the boom while closehauled. I can let boom out a bit to where its over my head standing on side deck, but boom is then so high over my head, its dangerous to let go with both hands to tie off the reef lines. The cure is a smaller boat.
__________________
waterman46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2016, 10:39   #22
Moderator
 
Don C L's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Channel Islands, CA
Boat: 1962 Columbia 29 MK 1 #37
Posts: 4,372
Images: 34
Re: Attaching reefing line directly to cringle cuts line aloft

While it is true the combined effect of the line running up from the boom through the cringle and out to the aft end of the boom results in the correct angle of pull, and that you can recreate that angle with one line from the cringle to a block correctly placed, you will not have a portion of line actually holding the clew down to the boom. I think the video made the case well for the two anchor points, not one.
__________________
DL
Pythagoras
1962 Columbia 29 MKI #37
Don C L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2016, 10:43   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Oakland CA
Boat: Morgan 46 ketch
Posts: 238
Re: Attaching reefing line directly to cringle cuts line aloft

Your diagram looks good but remember, you definitely want to run those lines *inside* the boom. Running them externally would be a dangerous situation since the unused reef line(s) would usually sag down and catch on your neck when you jibe.

You can use those stainless steel halyard mast exit thingies if you want, but I am a simple cheap guy so I just cut slots and carefully smoothed them inside and out.
__________________
waterman46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2016, 10:49   #24
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,342
Re: Attaching reefing line directly to cringle cuts line aloft

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snore View Post
Roverhi

I think you are over engineering. One bowline and you are good. This is how inhale my boat set up.

Check out this video - it has some great tips by a sailmaker on how to set up the clew.


Sent from my iPhone- please forgive autocorrect errors.
Well.... that's no different than any normal reef setup really right? when the sail is up/unreefed you still have two lines dangling around. The OP was trying to avoid that.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2016, 12:14   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Hailey, ID
Boat: Gulf 32 & Nimble 20
Posts: 348
Re: Attaching reefing line directly to cringle cuts line aloft

But when you snug the line that runs through the cheek block, when it's as tight as it can be it should be holding the reef cringle down to the boom and pulling the foot of the sail back so it's tight... isn't that enough?

Why do I care what's happening aft of the reef cringle, that part of the sail is no longer in play?

Not trying to be difficult here, just trying to sort this out, and now confused...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don C L View Post
While it is true the combined effect of the line running up from the boom through the cringle and out to the aft end of the boom results in the correct angle of pull, and that you can recreate that angle with one line from the cringle to a block correctly placed, you will not have a portion of line actually holding the clew down to the boom. I think the video made the case well for the two anchor points, not one.
__________________
basssears is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2016, 12:18   #26
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,342
Re: Attaching reefing line directly to cringle cuts line aloft

Quote:
Originally Posted by basssears View Post
But when you snug the line that runs through the cheek block, when it's as tight as it can be it should be holding the reef cringle down to the boom and pulling the foot of the sail back so it's tight... isn't that enough?

Why do I care what's happening aft of the reef cringle, that part of the sail is no longer in play?

Not trying to be difficult here, just trying to sort this out, and now confused...
Yes... It seems to me anyway, if the angle of the line from cringle to the block is 45 degrees when snug, it's the same direction of tension.....right?
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2016, 12:37   #27
Moderator
 
Don C L's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Channel Islands, CA
Boat: 1962 Columbia 29 MK 1 #37
Posts: 4,372
Images: 34
Re: Attaching reefing line directly to cringle cuts line aloft

Same direction of tension but made of only one directional component. 2 anchor points, 2 directional components, one down, one out. A single line pulled at a 45 so taught that the clew is not able lift up, SHOULD hold it fairly well, you are right, but I just happen to think it is better to be firmly held down and firmly held out. Perhaps it seems I am geometrically challenged but I know that when I tried it (the single) and took it out on a windy day and reefed it, I wished I hadn't tried it that way.
__________________
DL
Pythagoras
1962 Columbia 29 MKI #37
Don C L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2016, 12:38   #28
Registered User
 
jstevens's Avatar

Join Date: May 2006
Location: On board Sarah, currently lying in Jacksonville, FL
Boat: Pearson, 424, 42', Sarah
Posts: 582
Images: 4
Re: Attaching reefing line directly to cringle cuts line aloft

"I assume mounting reefing winch on mast was just an inadvertent error ."

It may have been an error in that post, but putting the winch on the mast can work fine as long as the line is secured on the boom, say with a rope clutch. Once the reef line is tensioned it is released from the winch.

This arrangement allows a larger winch to be fitted and avoids having to deal with a winch on a bouncing boom. The winch can also be used for the outhaul.
On the only boat I've sailed with this arrangment, the winch was attached to the mast below the gooseneck and the reef and outhaul lines were fed internal to the boom. The reef line can also be handled from either side of the mast.

John
__________________
jstevens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2016, 12:50   #29
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Hailey, ID
Boat: Gulf 32 & Nimble 20
Posts: 348
Re: Attaching reefing line directly to cringle cuts line aloft

OK, I see what you're saying (and with a boat name like Pythagoras I better listen when we talk about angles!).

What I really want to avoid is having to do a bunch at the aft end of the boom when reefing as I don't like leaning out / reaching out like that, I'm really hoping to do most of my work from the mast / forward end of the boom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don C L View Post
Same direction of tension but made of only one directional component. 2 anchor points, 2 directional components, one down, one out. A single line pulled at a 45 so taught that the clew is not able lift up, SHOULD hold it fairly well, you are right, but I just happen to think it is better to be firmly held down and firmly held out. Perhaps it seems I am geometrically challenged but I know that when I tried it (the single) and took it out on a windy day and reefed it, I wished I hadn't tried it that way.
__________________
basssears is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2016, 12:58   #30
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,342
Re: Attaching reefing line directly to cringle cuts line aloft

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don C L View Post
Same direction of tension but made of only one directional component. 2 anchor points, 2 directional components, one down, one out. A single line pulled at a 45 so taught that the clew is not able lift up, SHOULD hold it fairly well, you are right, but I just happen to think it is better to be firmly held down and firmly held out. Perhaps it seems I am geometrically challenged but I know that when I tried it (the single) and took it out on a windy day and reefed it, I wished I hadn't tried it that way.
It is confusing. My earlier/smaller boats used a cheek block for each reef. I would tie the line to the support on the cheek block, go under the boom and up thru the cringle, then back down to the sheave and forward. In effect this was a 2 part, but 45 degree system.
My later and bigger boats I learned and liked the "tie the dead end around the boom" approach. Thus no longer a total 45 degree system.
I cant really I say I saw much difference in the effect though. My gut says any "down" effect, or "aft" effect of the legs of the line balances out the same as a 45 degree system. Been a while though.
__________________

__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cringle or Strap at Head of Jib Tom1340 Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 13 08-02-2013 03:36
Going Aloft on the Hard Joe500 Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 34 07-04-2010 07:59
Extra Cringle - Cunningham? OffSeason Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 11 09-03-2010 12:33
Beneteau 50 In Mast Reefing vs Slab Reefing simon10 Monohull Sailboats 20 11-09-2008 07:22



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 16:02.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.