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Old 10-09-2017, 10:03   #1
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ATN Spinnaker Sleeve Control Line to Cockpit

Hi,

Is it possible to rig the ATN Spinnaker Sleeve Control Line back to the cockpit?

Has anybody done it?

We fly the spinnaker shorthanded, and the sleeve control line is the only line that is not sent back to the cockpit, so there is always the issue of having a person leave the cockpit, operate the control line and then jump back to the cockpit to get to the spin sheet when hoisting or the halyard when dousing.

I would like to avoid having people running around the boat, especially in windy conditions, but I have never seen a control line routed back to the cockpit.

Is there a reason why that is not a good thing to do?

Thank you!
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Old 16-09-2017, 21:01   #2
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Re: ATN Spinnaker Sleeve Control Line to Cockpit

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Originally Posted by FabioC View Post
Hi,

Is it possible to rig the ATN Spinnaker Sleeve Control Line back to the cockpit?

Has anybody done it?

We fly the spinnaker shorthanded, and the sleeve control line is the only line that is not sent back to the cockpit, so there is always the issue of having a person leave the cockpit, operate the control line and then jump back to the cockpit to get to the spin sheet when hoisting or the halyard when dousing.

I would like to avoid having people running around the boat, especially in windy conditions, but I have never seen a control line routed back to the cockpit.

Is there a reason why that is not a good thing to do?

Thank you!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

May I ask a question?
If you did have a line running to the cockpit from the sleeve on the spinnaker, what would happen once you doused the spinnaker? In other words, once the sleeve has come down over the spinnaker, what happens next? Everyone stay in the cockpit?
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Old 17-09-2017, 10:32   #3
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Re: ATN Spinnaker Sleeve Control Line to Cockpit

I guess I should have phrased my question better...
Of course, it is not possible to perform the entire maneuver of hoisting and dousing the spinnaker entirely from the cockpit, since at the very least somebody would have to get off the cockpit at least to open the spinnaker bag and then to get the spinnaker back in the bag.

However, my point is that, when hoisting shorthanded, the person raising the spinnaker has to operate the halyard from the cockpit, then handle the control line from near/forward of the mast, and the very next thing that same person has to run back to the cockpit to trim the spinnaker sheet.

It seems to me that the logical thing to do is to have the control line also sent back to the cockpit, so as to avoid the back and forth.

However, I have not seen it done. Perhaps I am dense, but cannot think of any reason against having the control line back to the cockpit. The one issue that I can see is that, if the line is sent back to the cockpit, say, through a block at the base of the mast, and then you jibe the spinnaker and try to douse it on the other side, the control line would be on the wrong side of the forestay, so you would not be able to do so. But this happens anyway even in the conventional way of having the control line tied at the base of the mast while the spinnaker is flying.

Thus, my question... Is sending the control line back a good idea and has somebody done it?

Thanks,
Fabio
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Old 17-09-2017, 11:53   #4
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Re: ATN Spinnaker Sleeve Control Line to Cockpit

I also wanted to run the control line for the sleeve back to the cockpit, but never got around to implementing it. As you described, my plan was to run the line through a double block at the base of the mast. The control line is continuous to raise and lower the sock. You could use separate raise and douse lines, but they would have to be very long and one or the other would clutter up the cockpit. My plan was to keep it as an extended continuous line that just reached forward portion of the cockpit. I did set it up that way and tested it dockside, but never implemented when it underway. The only thing I lacked was a cleat on the trunk cabin to secure the line.
I see no reason this would not work.

John
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Old 17-09-2017, 14:50   #5
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Re: ATN Spinnaker Sleeve Control Line to Cockpit

Fabio, as you have said, some foredeck work is required. What I have done is not to bring the douser line aft, but to leave the spinny halyard on the mast and do it all from the mast area.

This reduces frictional losses in the halyard and, more importantly imo, gives a good view of the sock as it is hoisted and then as the sail is deployed. Getting either halyard or douser fouled on a spreader or whatever is not so unlikely if the boat is rolling a bit, and if not noticed can lead to expensive results.

I don't personally like the idea of leading everything to the cockpit. I know many fear leaving that "safe haven" but it is occasionally really necessary. If you are not well practiced in such things, doing them under duress is more difficult and dangerous than it needs to be. Not a popular opinion I know, but it has some merit, again IMO.

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Old 17-09-2017, 16:52   #6
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Re: ATN Spinnaker Sleeve Control Line to Cockpit

Get used to working forward of the mast. As Jim said keeping an eye on the chute as you deploy it can often stop calamity before it happens.
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Old 17-09-2017, 17:44   #7
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Re: ATN Spinnaker Sleeve Control Line to Cockpit

Bleemus, I agree completely; someone ultimately has to be on the bow to control and bag the spinnaker. It's also the best location to watch the process and rectify any problems that may occur.



And, we are not talking about heavy weather sailing here. If you have the spinnaker up, you're going downwind with a pretty nice motion. Hopefully you have a predetermined wind speed/boat speed that you believe that it's time to take down before things get out of control.



Jim Cate, all you said makes complete sense. Best place for the spinnaker halyard in on the mast. I won't repeat all you said.
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Old 17-09-2017, 17:53   #8
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Re: ATN Spinnaker Sleeve Control Line to Cockpit

For me (and I suspect FabioC) the reason for running the sock control to the cockpit is not fear of the foredeck, just wanting to be in the cockpit with the helm and sheets at hand as the sail is released from the sock as well as when dousing the chute. All of my halyards are terminated at the mast, so i have to go forward for all sail changes except furling and unfurling the Genoa. I would still have to go to the foredeck to set everything up before setting the chute and once again to put all the gear away.

Those of you who normally sail with competent crew probably don't see any value in the arrangement FabioC and I described.

John
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Old 17-09-2017, 20:32   #9
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Re: ATN Spinnaker Sleeve Control Line to Cockpit

Yes, my question applies primarily to sailing shorthanded, most of the time is the two of us.

With only one person handling all the lines, the main problem that I can see is the fact that the person has to be near/in front of the mast to raise the sleeve and pop the chute, then she has to get back in the cockpit to trim the sheet, so the spinnaker is flogging for several seconds. If it is windy and you are hoisting on a reach, it is an unpleasant situation, but even if you are on a run, it is kind of messy. Plus, the boat may roll, while you have a person running around trying to reach a sheet as fast as possible.

I am just wondering how the whole thing can be done better.

This ATN Spinnaker Sleeve sounds like a great idea when you see it on another boat, but it has several drawbacks.

The other big question related to the sleeve is this: how do you avoid the sleeve to get stuck on the forestay when you jibe?
We have a fractional rig, and the spinnaker halyard is only about a foot or so from the jib halyard. I can't figure out how to cleanly pass the sleeve around the forestay on the jibe...
What's the trick? do you drop the halyard a couple of feet so the spinnaker is further away from the forestay, jibe the spinnaker, and then trim the halyard back?

It is probably because I have not mastered it yet, but the sleeve for now seems to create more troubles than what it solves...

Thank you,
Fabio
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