Another Keel Lost; Another Capsize

[Jim Cate]

Technically the more assets you have the more liability coverage you should have.

You are confused! I'm talking about the moral responsibility of protecting the VICTIM, not the insured person. If you have no assets and yet cause great damage to someone else, insurance means that their loss is mitigated.

You are talking about protecting the assets of someone who has them.

Big difference!

Jim

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by thruska

No insurance company will pay out on a boat they will have surveyed on their own dime. They will condemn the boat as unseaworthy even after the fact of the sinking and they will even arbitrate and still not pay. The system is rigged in their favor.

All depends:
- it probably doesn't make sense to carry replacement value insurance as the boat is worth so little. They have $10k into what was probably a $2-3k boat (pre-sinking), so knock off a $1000 deductible and there is't much to gain.
- it makes a lot of sense to carry liability, environmental damage and recovery insurance. They might only have 10gal of diesel in the tanks but if the authorities want to stick it to them, it's pretty easy to mobilize $20-30k in containment systems or as someone else mentioned, a small ding on a 100' yacht and the repairs are likely going to start at $10k.

Of course if they provided the survey required and there were lots of deficiencies that needed repair...maybe there is a good reason to repair them.

It's not a perfect system but hardly some evil cabal out to take advantage of unwary kids.

[thruska]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

All depends:
- it probably doesn't make sense to carry replacement value insurance as the boat is worth so little. They have $10k into what was probably a $2-3k boat (pre-sinking), so knock off a $1000 deductible and there is't much to gain.
- it makes a lot of sense to carry liability, environmental damage and recovery insurance. They might only have 10gal of diesel in the tanks but if the authorities want to stick it to them, it's pretty easy to mobilize $20-30k in containment systems or as someone else mentioned, a small ding on a 100' yacht and the repairs are likely going to start at $10k.

Of course if they provided the survey required and there were lots of deficiencies that needed repair...maybe there is a good reason to repair them.

It's not a perfect system but hardly some evil cabal out to take advantage of unwary kids.

Sorry Val, but I totally disagree on the grounds that my experience with Seatow and Progressive are proof of the evil cabal. Not willing to elaborate and relive it again. Insurance is what I call legal extortion.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by alaskaflyfish

Their failure is our failure. We are not a community of one. They will most definitely fail if we do not allow them room to succeed. Most kids today are not just brats, but horrible brats. That is our collective failure. Ignorance does not equate to stupidity, just a lack of knowledge. They are 26 and 24, I believe they are right where they should be. I disagree, reasonable intelligence and planning does not guarantee anything. I appears these young people have stepped on your toes and now we just need to flesh out the how and why.

I owned a mortage free house and had two kids by that age. NO. Their failure is most certainly not my failure. I do not accept responsibility for what you perceive as your failure. My two boys were taught self reliance, a solid work ethic and responsibility. One is a high school principal and one is dean of a private school and neither one has ever held their hand out.

[alaskaflyfish]

Originally Posted by Souzag818

OK, here it is: https://www.gofundme.com/new-sailing-life. Up to nearly $16,000.

Your late to the party amigo, you should have read the prior posts before posting this. GFM has been discussed ad nauseum. Generosity is not begging. Thanks for the update anyway.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by alaskaflyfish

Your late to the party amigo, you should have read the prior posts before posting this. GFM has been discussed ad nauseum. Generosity is not begging. Thanks for the update anyway.

You seem to misunderstand the concept. Generosity on the part of the giver is not begging. The "begging" refers to the receivers with their hands out asking for a free ride.

[alaskaflyfish]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

NO. Their failure is most certainly not my failure. I do not accept responsibility for what you perceive as your failure. My boys were taught self reliance, a solid work ethic and responsibility. One is a high school principal and one is dean of a private school and neither one has ever held their hand out.

Your kids work for an institution that relies on begging for its existence. That is after they extort money thru taxes to pay themselves. I get 4 letters a year from a local university begging me for money, not to mention a high school football team going door to door begging for donations. Beggars all according to your standards. Get over it. Societies failures are at your doorstep whether you recognize it or not.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by alaskaflyfish

Your kids work for an institution that relies on begging for its existence. That is after they extort money thru taxes to pay themselves. I get 4 letters a year from a local university begging me for money, not to mention a high school football team going door to door begging for donations. Beggars all according to your standards. Get over it. Societies failures are at your doorstep whether you recognize it or not.

I strongly suggest anger management and Valium. Your personal failures are yours alone.

[alaskaflyfish]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

I strongly suggest anger management and Valium. Your personal failures are your alone.

I truly hope you find peace, love, joy, and happiness. There is nothing worse than being bitter.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by alaskaflyfish

I truly hope you find peace, love, joy, and happiness. There is nothing worse than being bitter.

I find it curious that you don't see the irony in that statement.

[GTom]

Originally Posted by alaskaflyfish

Your late to the party amigo, you should have read the prior posts before posting this. GFM has been discussed ad nauseum. Generosity is not begging. Thanks for the update anyway.

Anyway funny, you put a story on the web that becomes an automated money making machine.

[alaskaflyfish]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

I find it curious that you don't see the irony in that statement.

Thank you for offering an olive branch, I accept your apology.

[Souzag818]

Originally Posted by senormechanico

Imho, it's internet begging. Nothing more.
Take your lumps, get a job and learn from your mistakes.

[Souzag818]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Please can someone help us we have no money is begging IMHO and it is what this pair and others of their ilk are doing.

First world people with first world problems too stupid to have insurance and too lazy to earn the dollars themselves.


I have no issue helping those in genuine need and have done so in the past.
These people are not even close to being in genuine need.

[thruska]

Getting back to the subject of the keel. Has anyone any definitive info as to whether it’s off or not ?
I know a friend who went into an uncharted inlet on jersey coast in the dark and got the keel pounded thru the hull of his Islander30, sunk in five minutes. Coast guard on site, seatow rescued him from his dingy .
I was an hour ahead of him in Cape May. Long story...
My Columbia28 was on the hard for 10 years before we got it. We being 3rd owners, it was previously owned by a retired navy man, and then a young man whom was writing for sailing magazines. He then started raising a family and the boat sat in his yard in East Haddam , ct. It turned out to be fairly well cared for except for some water ingress on the hard due to plugged bilge drain.
During our four month boat resurrection, hardly a restoration, the keel joint and bolts had taken considerable attention . While cleaning the bilge we noticed a weeping in the keel joint, one tiny little leak. Well I knew this had to be remedied. I had already replaced nuts and washers and tightened the keel boats. After finding the source of the leak I Removed copious amounts of devils glue from the joint. Then after drying with heaters and fan in and out for a couple days I ran acetone thru it. Then acetone and West resin thinned out like Get Rot. Drilled 1/8 holes after removing nut and washer from a forward keel boat. Vacuum and clean. Poured West resin in the holes, a few drops found their way thru. Using only a couple ounces of resin, another pour was required. Replaced washer and nut. Then I removed all the other nuts and washers and decided to resin the bilge where the bolts came thru ,replaced the hardware and torqued again. I then roughed up the entire bilge about a foot high, and resined that with a little silica added, including the nuts and washers. Cured with heat and fans. Dryer than a popcorn fart.
Then to the outer joint... I called Gougeon Bros in Michigan. Told them my plan to “bandage” the keel stub and lead keel. I followed their recommendations. Phosphorus etched the keel after wire brushing it, rinsed it off, dried it thoroughly. Wire Brushed in activated resin on the lead, and painted resin on the stub as it was prepared by sanding. Applied several layers of 6 inch wide fiberglass cloth.
After a violent ungrounding by seatow we were hauled out for repairs by insurance. A 30 year employee of Tartan said that in view of the keel and hull damage, the bandage was what kept the keel attached. No leaks or damage to the bandages. In my humble opinion their are perhaps ways not necessarily accepted by production designers that remedy keel loss.
Now, after I cut a portion of the keel off and relocate it, it’s going to be a looper without a mast.