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Old 07-04-2013, 12:10   #1
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Anchoring/mooring with clipper bow & bobstay?

Our Formosa 51 ketch has a clipper bow with a bobsprit and bobstay. The hawseholes for leading mooring or dock lines are set pretty far back from the bow. No problem at all at the dock, but when hanging from a mooring, the "sailing" of the boat back and forth causes the mooring pendants to alternately push against the bobstay.

We solved the problem when anchoring by fabricating a custom bow roller which extends pretty far forward so that the chain rode (more importantly, the snubber) is far forward enough so that the rode/snubber won't hit the bobstay as the boat "sails" back and forth in moderate-to-high winds.



The problem is when on a mooring. If we lead the mooring pendants back to the hawseholes, they inevitably hit the bobstay. In a nor'easter a few years back, our dolphin striker was popped off. Last night, here in Grenada, our first night on a mooring in ages, the mooring pendants actually broke the padeye on the bobsprit which the bobstay attaches to.

So, my question is: what is the preferred method for large sailboats with clipper bows and bobstays to hang off a mooring? I know we could run the pendants up the anchor roller, just like hanging off the anchor rode, but that would necessitate removing the 80lb anchor from the roller - not an easy task. Should we just run both pendants through a single hawsehole on the port or starboard side of the bow? Is that how large (80+ foot) schooners do it? Experience shows that trying to spread the load port and starboard doesn't cut it.
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Old 07-04-2013, 12:34   #2
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Re: Anchoring/mooring with clipper bow & bobstay?

How about rigging a shackle or bow eye down at the lower end of the bobstay fitting that a snubber attaches to? When at anchor it gives you a lower angle and therefore less scope is needed. When on a mooring you need to keep the snubber really short, but prevents the problem you have been having. Might not work with all mooring fields as some of them have the moorings quite close to each other and you can't add any length to the mooring painter without impinging on another nearby mooring.

Here's an earlier thread on this problem.
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Old 07-04-2013, 13:03   #3
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I agree with Kettlewell, on my Formosa 51 I have the same issue. I may try to add a pad below the bobstay attachment during my current yard period. Looking at the bow it may not be as easy as it sounds. If I try it i will post the results.
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Old 07-04-2013, 13:08   #4
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Re: Anchoring/mooring with clipper bow & bobstay?

I just have a small sprit for a bow roller, so no problem with the bobstay, but I did fit a bow eye which I keep a snubber line attached to. Reducing the angle on the rode means I don't need to put as much out in a tight anchorage, plus there is no noise from the chain or rode on the roller, and my boat rides quite nicely using the eye. I believe some put a roller pretty far out the bowsprit for use in normal conditions, moving back to the deck cleats with a bridle if the weather picks up. I would think the sprit should be strong enough to handle normal mooring loads.
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Old 07-04-2013, 19:40   #5
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Re: Anchoring/mooring with clipper bow & bobstay?

You have not much choice, a shackle at the base of the bob stay and a block at the end of the bow sprit for the snubber of your choice.
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Old 07-04-2013, 21:12   #6
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Re: Anchoring/mooring with clipper bow & bobstay?

Personally, I'd rig up attachments and a bridle that came down from both sides of the bow that was EZ to attach/detach so the boat would not sail on the hook. Similar to a para anchor set up I plan to install, but not as far aft, closer to the bow section.

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Old 07-04-2013, 22:30   #7
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Re: Anchoring/mooring with clipper bow & bobstay?

Doubt a bridle will work. Boat will still sail around and chafe the bridle on the bobstay.

Our W32 had two pukas in the bobstay plate on the hull. Rigged the bobstay to one and an anchor snubber to the 2nd, lower puka. Problem solved. Left the snubber in place for coastal cruising, took it off when we were making long passages.
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Old 07-04-2013, 23:15   #8
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I have seen a mooring fairlead out on the end of the bowsprit. It can put some pretty heavy loads on the forestay, not good if its an exposed location, but it stops alot of the sailing about.
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Old 07-04-2013, 23:44   #9
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Re: Anchoring/mooring with clipper bow & bobstay?

Jim installed a snubber eye on our previous Insatiable. It was located about 4" inches up from the water line. He used a s/s backing plate on the inside of the stem, welded an eye he made from some flat s/s stock onto a s/s bolt after cutting off its head. He used a 5/8" diameter bolt, IIRC, and shackled a made-up snubber line to it that had a s/s thimble in the eye end. After using it for some years, he decided to take it off, partly because it was "fiddly" to use, and partly because of concerns about oxygen-deprivation corrosion. There has been no chat about repeating the experiment.
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Old 08-04-2013, 07:32   #10
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Re: Anchoring/mooring with clipper bow & bobstay?

I thought seriously about a snubber attached to the lower bobstay padeye, but the shear forces would have been way to much. It would require the fabrication and installation of a new double padeye, the upper one to handle the upward force of the bobstay and a lower one reinforced to handle the side loading from swinging/sailing on the rode/pendant. It would have to be either a single snubber somehow fitted with a chain hook for the rode and an eye for a pendant, or two snubbers - one for chain and one with an eye for a pendant. We'd have to haul the boat to be able to install a new padeye fitting...

Right now, our custom bow roller for the 80lb Manson Supreme anchor works great with a snubber run alongside the chain rode thru the roller. But we can't run a mooring pendant up through it without removing the anchor first.

Roverhi is right about a bridle. We used to use one, but it chafed seriously against the bobstay, so we went to a single snubber run through the anchor roller.
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Old 08-04-2013, 08:43   #11
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Re: Anchoring/mooring with clipper bow & bobstay?

beausoleil..i also have a formosa ketch i used to keep on a mooring now i anchor.
you donot need fancy bs gadgets. all you need is a bridle.
i used one tag line on one side of boat thru one hawse and the other one to a different link on mooring chain through other hawse. worked perfectly fine. nothing else is needed. bobstay will become touched occasionally but not a big deal.
for anchoring i use a bridle with chain hook through each hawse. my anchor is off the sprit--i have 2 rollers there, as do you, and this works well.
my anchor chain does not go thru hawse but over the cap and does not use hawse holes.
for formosa specific info, try leaky teaky yacht club--we all have leaky teakys and love them so much we call em that..lol..linky is inmy signature...
enjoy your formosa--they are soooo cool and sail way better than folks think.

do not put the anchor thru hawse if you wish to use hawse for bridle....
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Old 08-04-2013, 09:05   #12
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Re: Anchoring/mooring with clipper bow & bobstay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
beausoleil..i also have a formosa ketch i used to keep on a mooring now i anchor.
you donot need fancy bs gadgets. all you need is a bridle.
i used one tag line on one side of boat thru one hawse and the other one to a different link on mooring chain through other hawse. worked perfectly fine. nothing else is needed. bobstay will become touched occasionally but not a big deal.
for anchoring i use a bridle with chain hook through each hawse. my anchor is off the sprit--i have 2 rollers there, as do you, and this works well.
my anchor chain does not go thru hawse but over the cap and does not use hawse holes.
for formosa specific info, try leaky teaky yacht club--we all have leaky teakys and love them so much we call em that..lol..linky is inmy signature...
enjoy your formosa--they are soooo cool and sail way better than folks think.

do not put the anchor thru hawse if you wish to use hawse for bridle....
Thanks, Zeehag, but as I noted before, we did try a bridle - through the hawse holes while anchoring, but the bridle chafed against the bobstay as we sailed back and forth. With mooring pendants, it's also the same. What works for us at anchor is the single snubber line run out through the custom anchor roller - not through the hawse holes.

For mooring pendants, I know what would work: removing the anchor so we could run both pendants through the roller. But even though I'm in pretty damn good shape for my age, removing the anchor every time we lie on a mooring ain't gonna happen!

I'll check out the Leaky Teaky Yacht Club link. I wish Jim Lay could get the old Force50.org website for Hardin/Formosa owners running again...
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Old 08-04-2013, 14:08   #13
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Re: Anchoring/mooring with clipper bow & bobstay?

beau--i had a stretchy bunch of bungee on mine from roller to ball top loop--try that---only problem was twisting made some fouling, but easily undone--beats alternative--make it the heavy dooty stretchy stuff...i doubled it also, so if one got brokenthe other was still stretchy....have fun....

make it loooose so ball doesnt bounce up to you--i had that happen during my research period...pissed me off,,,,
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